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riopella
Dec 22, 2009, 10:10 PM
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Citizens of RockClimbing.com
I have a question. So a friend has a Mammut Galaxy rope (60m, 10MM) that he has NEVER used for 10 years. And by NEVER, I mean never, ever. It is still in the plastic, was put in the Metolius Ropemaster bag right when he bought it (so it was totally kept out of UV light), moved away and never took his lead course and just stopped climbing. He brought it with him as he moved from condo to house but never used it AT ALL. I think its still good but I haven’t inspected it from the plastic yet.
Is there anything else I should check with it besides the usual core check?
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acorneau
Dec 22, 2009, 10:25 PM
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riopella wrote: Citizens of RockClimbing.com I have a question. So a friend has a Mammut Galaxy rope (60m, 10MM) that he has NEVER used for 10 years. And by NEVER, I mean never, ever. It is still in the plastic, was put in the Metolius Ropemaster bag right when he bought it (so it was totally kept out of UV light), moved away and never took his lead course and just stopped climbing. He brought it with him as he moved from condo to house but never used it AT ALL. I think its still good but I haven’t inspected it from the plastic yet. Is there anything else I should check with it besides the usual core check?
Yeah, check the prices of new ropes!
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dugl33
Dec 22, 2009, 10:43 PM
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I'd probably climb on it. I think the worries about old nylon are probably overblown if the rope is in pristine physical condition stored away from sunlight and chemicals.
Now 20 years old... well...
edit to add: you could always donate it to science, and see if it still achieves the same fall rating it had when it was new. be interesting to find out.
(This post was edited by dugl33 on Dec 22, 2009, 10:45 PM)
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kennoyce
Dec 22, 2009, 10:57 PM
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That is not a problem at all. Nylon products have a shelf life of at least 10 years, and a use life after that of up to 5, so all in all you are good until that baby is 15 years old. Have fun with your new rope, or send it to me and I will.
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dugl33
Dec 22, 2009, 10:58 PM
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This is interesting...
*****************************
Subject: Rope Life--Some Data
From: Chris Harmston <chrish@bdel.com>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:00:41 -0700
Here is some test data from an investigation I conducted last summer.
Ropes were provided by a customer who was asking similar questions as you
all are.
All ropes were used slightly. I conducted a pull test on a loop of rope
with an overhand followthrough knot (used this knot to minimize knot
tightening and test machine travel). I did not conduct drop tests because
we do not have this capability at this time.
1) 1986 Chouinard 8.8 mm. 3240 lbf @ knot. (this is a half rope)
2) 1986 Chouinard 11 mm. 5944 lbf @ knot.
3) 25 year old 11 mm Edelrid. 5141 lbf @ knot.
Conclusions. Don't know how strong these ropes were when new. Single
strand strength of these ropes is conservatively half the loop strength
(big assumption on my part). I would say this is pretty good overall. I
do not know what the dynamic properties of these ropes were nor do I know
how time affects the dynamic properties. My recommendation to the
customer was to not take any chances with the ropes in lead climbing. I
would use them for top roping without any reservations.
Data from a test I conducted on 12/22/98 (research into Dan Osman's failed
rope--to be published later so don't ask questions about this right now
please). Loop, knot was a quad followthrough figure 8 (I have a new
machine now and can test with longer travel).
All ropes are BD ropes. New condition 1997 ropes.
1) 11 mm. 6643 lbf @ knot.
2) 11 mm. 6803 lbf @ knot.
3) 10 mm. 4596 lbf @ knot.
4) 10 mm. 4765 lbf @ knot.
5) 10 mm. 4952 lbf @ knot.
Conclusions: very strong.
My Conclusions and Recommendations. Rope strength does not appear to
decrease with time. I don't trust old ropes because I do not know how the
elastic properties change with time. This needs further research. Chris.
Chris Harmston
Quality Assurance Manager/Materials Engineer BS. ME.
Black Diamond Equipment Ltd.
2084 East 3900 South, SLC, UT 84124 phone: 801-278-5552
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Adk
Dec 22, 2009, 11:04 PM
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dugl33 wrote: This is interesting... ***************************** Subject: Rope Life--Some Data From: Chris Harmston <chrish@bdel.com> Newsgroups: rec.climbing Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:00:41 -0700 Here is some test data from an investigation I conducted last summer. Ropes were provided by a customer who was asking similar questions as you all are. All ropes were used slightly. I conducted a pull test on a loop of rope with an overhand followthrough knot (used this knot to minimize knot tightening and test machine travel). I did not conduct drop tests because we do not have this capability at this time. 1) 1986 Chouinard 8.8 mm. 3240 lbf @ knot. (this is a half rope) 2) 1986 Chouinard 11 mm. 5944 lbf @ knot. 3) 25 year old 11 mm Edelrid. 5141 lbf @ knot. Conclusions. Don't know how strong these ropes were when new. Single strand strength of these ropes is conservatively half the loop strength (big assumption on my part). I would say this is pretty good overall. I do not know what the dynamic properties of these ropes were nor do I know how time affects the dynamic properties. My recommendation to the customer was to not take any chances with the ropes in lead climbing. I would use them for top roping without any reservations. Data from a test I conducted on 12/22/98 (research into Dan Osman's failed rope--to be published later so don't ask questions about this right now please). Loop, knot was a quad followthrough figure 8 (I have a new machine now and can test with longer travel). All ropes are BD ropes. New condition 1997 ropes. 1) 11 mm. 6643 lbf @ knot. 2) 11 mm. 6803 lbf @ knot. 3) 10 mm. 4596 lbf @ knot. 4) 10 mm. 4765 lbf @ knot. 5) 10 mm. 4952 lbf @ knot. Conclusions: very strong. My Conclusions and Recommendations. Rope strength does not appear to
decrease with time. I don't trust old ropes because I do not know how the
elastic properties change with time. This needs further research. Chris. Chris Harmston Quality Assurance Manager/Materials Engineer BS. ME. Black Diamond Equipment Ltd. 2084 East 3900 South, SLC, UT 84124 phone: 801-278-5552
Thanks!
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riopella
Dec 23, 2009, 5:41 AM
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wow, thanks guys, this was really helpful.
i pretty much had the same thoughts, its still good but attention will have to be used all the time. i'm thinking at the most, i can just use it as a gym rope and save my better one for the crag.
i've emailed mammut to see what they think. stay tuned for that.
anymore feed back, info/data would be greatly appreciated! i love this stuff.
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lrossi
Dec 23, 2009, 7:16 AM
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riopella wrote: i've emailed mammut to see what they think. stay tuned for that.
Well, the current Mammut rope guide (which I just got with my new rope) says the "Approximate life span" is "10 years maximum" for a "Never used" rope.
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doogle
Dec 23, 2009, 9:42 AM
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riopella wrote: wow, thanks guys, this was really helpful.
Why do you sound so suprised? You say this like you expected something less from our trusty RC.com crowd.
Surely not.
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granite_grrl
Dec 23, 2009, 1:58 PM
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I'd use the rope.
We have a ton of ropes in the basement. This is our typical life cycle.
- retire
- decide to lead on it a bit again
- retire
- bring it back to TR on
- retire
- cut it in half and use as short lead rope
- retire
- bring back to either a)TR on again b)fix the rope on a new route you're developing.
After the rope has been hanging in the elements for a couple of months and feels like a fat steel cable....it's time for true retirement.
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riopella
Dec 23, 2009, 8:20 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: I'd use the rope. We have a ton of ropes in the basement. This is our typical life cycle. - retire - decide to lead on it a bit again - retire - bring it back to TR on - retire - cut it in half and use as short lead rope - retire - bring back to either a)TR on again b)fix the rope on a new route you're developing. After the rope has been hanging in the elements for a couple of months and feels like a fat steel cable....it's time for true retirement.
R! how are you?!
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riopella
Dec 23, 2009, 8:22 PM
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doogle wrote: riopella wrote: wow, thanks guys, this was really helpful. Why do you sound so suprised? You say this like you expected something less from our trusty RC.com crowd. Surely not.
lol, well of course i hoped (and assumed) to get a reply. lol. its the whole reason why i posted my question. but sometimes its nice to get a "thank you", people don't do it a lot anymore.
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riopella
Dec 23, 2009, 8:23 PM
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lrossi wrote: riopella wrote: i've emailed mammut to see what they think. stay tuned for that. Well, the current Mammut rope guide (which I just got with my new rope) says the "Approximate life span" is "10 years maximum" for a "Never used" rope.
hmm...very interesting. i'm definitely going to keep that in mind when i hear back from mammut. it'll be interesting to see what the suggest.
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kennoyce
Dec 23, 2009, 8:24 PM
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So are you going to send me [edit]my new your 10 year old [/edit] rope or not? I want to field test it for you in red rocks next week.
(This post was edited by kennoyce on Dec 23, 2009, 8:27 PM)
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riopella
Dec 23, 2009, 8:27 PM
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kennoyce wrote: So are you going to send me my new rope or not? I want to field test it for you in red rocks next week.
DUDE! you're gonna be in red rocks?! i'm there from dec 29th to jan 3rd! its my first time there!
i'm trying to pack RIGHT NOW cause i'm flying to whistler to snowboard, then flying from Vancouver to Vegas to climb!
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kennoyce
Dec 23, 2009, 8:31 PM
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Nice, My plans aren't completely final, but I will probably be there from the 27th or 28th until the 2nd. Maybe we'll see you around.
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granite_grrl
Dec 27, 2009, 1:55 AM
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riopella wrote: granite_grrl wrote: I'd use the rope. We have a ton of ropes in the basement. This is our typical life cycle. - retire - decide to lead on it a bit again - retire - bring it back to TR on - retire - cut it in half and use as short lead rope - retire - bring back to either a)TR on again b)fix the rope on a new route you're developing. After the rope has been hanging in the elements for a couple of months and feels like a fat steel cable....it's time for true retirement. R! how are you?!
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