|
jermanimal
Jan 11, 2010, 8:33 PM
Post #1 of 33
(3878 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 7, 2007
Posts: 200
|
heading to an adventure racing camp this spring...here is a picture from last years camp. would any one else have a problem with an instructor showing beginner to ascend like this?
so maybe you don't go through all the commands with your buddies, but seems if you are instructing you should follow all the usage recommendations for the climbing equipment.
(This post was edited by jermanimal on Jan 11, 2010, 8:33 PM)
|
|
Attachments:
|
bolls_camp_2009_104.sized.jpg
(139 KB)
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Jan 11, 2010, 8:38 PM
Post #2 of 33
(3854 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
What is the big deal?
|
|
|
|
|
shimanilami
Jan 11, 2010, 8:40 PM
Post #3 of 33
(3849 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043
|
What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used?
|
|
|
|
|
kennoyce
Jan 11, 2010, 8:43 PM
Post #4 of 33
(3836 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1338
|
Looks right to me. I don't have any idea what they could do better.
|
|
|
|
|
jermanimal
Jan 11, 2010, 8:47 PM
Post #5 of 33
(3827 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 7, 2007
Posts: 200
|
No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?
|
|
|
|
|
kennoyce
Jan 11, 2010, 8:49 PM
Post #6 of 33
(3817 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1338
|
Not on a low angle jug like that. I would take the time to do it on a steep or traversing pitch, but its pretty much pointless in that pic.
|
|
|
|
|
doktor_g
Jan 11, 2010, 8:50 PM
Post #7 of 33
(3816 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 152
|
That's ok for doing it for yourself. It looks vertical with little chance of the jugs coming off. If you're instructing noobs though. You should at least comment on back-up which I don't see in the photo. Since it's close to the ground you can't just be tied-in to the end of the rope as you would on El-Cap for a back-up. You might consider a clove or a gri-gri below the jugs for instructive purposes. Otherwise I don't see a whole lot wrong with this.
G
|
|
|
|
|
edge
Jan 11, 2010, 8:50 PM
Post #8 of 33
(3816 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
|
shimanilami wrote: What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used?
Well, the anodization clearly doesn't match his outfit at all. The helmet somewhat compliments the jacket, but really what is needed here is a light beige cashmere scarf to reflect the Dockers pants. (God I hope they have crotch gussets for freedom of movement and internal knee patches!!!!11!!)
The glasses are so poseurish, and yet I can't look away; they mesmerize me.
I assume that beginners would be taught to tie in occasionally or have a top rope belay until they get comfortable with the technique, but this guy is clearly hardcore. I can almost smell the Under Armor undergarments from here.
Oh wait, I get it! There are trees behind him. Cut them all down so that the routes can dry quicker and the crag dogs will have a place to run.
|
|
|
|
|
doktor_g
Jan 11, 2010, 8:53 PM
Post #9 of 33
(3801 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 152
|
no. no biner needed unless ugly traverse and even then I'd rather be caught by a gri-gri or backup knot than something with 20 something sharp teeth.
g
|
|
|
|
|
yokese
Jan 11, 2010, 9:00 PM
Post #10 of 33
(3787 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 18, 2006
Posts: 672
|
jermanimal wrote: No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?
I do. Always. It seems that you and I are in the minority, though.
|
|
|
|
|
shimanilami
Jan 11, 2010, 9:05 PM
Post #11 of 33
(3770 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043
|
I'll add that this is for an adventure racing camp. If you put in backups and all that crap, then where's the adventure?
Seriously, though. I don't think it would hurt to instruct noob racers to put a 'biner in the top holes. It's quick and easy, and it might save one of those idiots from their idiocy.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jan 11, 2010, 9:09 PM
Post #12 of 33
(3754 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
yokese wrote: jermanimal wrote: No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope? I do. Always. It seems that you and I are in the minority, though.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jan 11, 2010, 9:21 PM
Post #13 of 33
(3737 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
edge wrote: shimanilami wrote: What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used? Well, the anodization clearly doesn't match his outfit at all. The helmet somewhat compliments the jacket, but really what is needed here is a light beige cashmere scarf to reflect the Dockers pants. (God I hope they have crotch gussets for freedom of movement and internal knee patches!!!!11!!) The glasses are so poseurish, and yet I can't look away; they mesmerize me. I assume that beginners would be taught to tie in occasionally or have a top rope belay until they get comfortable with the technique, but this guy is clearly hardcore. I can almost smell the Under Armor undergarments from here. Oh wait, I get it! There are trees behind him. Cut them all down so that the routes can dry quicker and the crag dogs will have a place to run.
I think the glasses are very much in tune with the helmet. It's coloration and pattern leads your eye directly to the glasses as a natural complement.
I would think that the top biner would be good in racing because when you're going for speed (especially when learning) you are more likely to flail or move the ascender in an odd way that might cause it to unclip. Of course, if the rigging & unrigging are part of your time, then adding the biners would slow the setup time.
|
|
|
|
|
sbaclimber
Jan 11, 2010, 9:48 PM
Post #14 of 33
(3699 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
|
edge wrote: shimanilami wrote: What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used? Well, the anodization clearly doesn't match his outfit at all. ...but this guy is clearly hardcore. ...There are trees behind him.
...."it" looks pretty feminine to me...
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Jan 11, 2010, 9:49 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
malcolm777b
Jan 11, 2010, 11:29 PM
Post #15 of 33
(3585 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2009
Posts: 204
|
jermanimal wrote: No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?
Nope. I tie back up knots. That being said, the second ascender is the backup to the first. If you tie backup knots, then the knots are a second backup. Without backup knots, 2 ascenders have to fail to cause a groundfall. I'm mostly concerned about failing ascenders when I'm passing a piece and have only 1 ascender on the rope.
What I can't tell from the picture is how this person is attached to the ascenders. There is a harness, so I assume that there is some attachment point.
Edit: What does strike me as odd though is the completely outstretched arm and legs not straight without tension in the system coming off of the top ascender. This setup does not seem efficient as too much of the bodyweight will be taken by the arm on the top ascender. That is, if anything, what is wrong with this picture.
(This post was edited by malcolm777b on Jan 11, 2010, 11:34 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
dugl33
Jan 12, 2010, 1:06 AM
Post #16 of 33
(3506 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2009
Posts: 740
|
sbaclimber wrote: edge wrote: shimanilami wrote: What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used? Well, the anodization clearly doesn't match his outfit at all. ...but this guy is clearly hardcore. ...There are trees behind him. Are you sure it is a guy!? ...."it" looks pretty feminine to me...
Yeah, I agree. Skin looks smooth like a babies bottom and those don't look like guy thighs. She might even be pretty underneath her bmx costume.
Not sure what to make of the bulging neck vein... must be working hard.
|
|
|
|
|
dugl33
Jan 12, 2010, 1:13 AM
Post #17 of 33
(3498 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2009
Posts: 740
|
The thing that is impossible to tell from that pic is if she is actually attached to her ascenders. Are those daisies attached to her harness? Where are the etriers? Or are those etriers, in which case where are the daisies?
Top biner gets bonus points but physical connection to the ascenders is the critical question.
|
|
|
|
|
sherpa79
Jan 12, 2010, 1:44 AM
Post #18 of 33
(3461 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 108
|
As long as it's got both of the jugs attached to the harness, I don't see the problem.
There hasn't been near enough adventure in that photo. The pants are still clean.......
|
|
|
|
|
potreroed
Jan 12, 2010, 2:29 AM
Post #19 of 33
(3417 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2001
Posts: 1454
|
jermanimal wrote: No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?
Nope, don't use back-up knots either.
|
|
|
|
|
JAB
Jan 12, 2010, 7:21 AM
Post #20 of 33
(3353 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 373
|
Is that a cycling helmet?
|
|
|
|
|
csproul
Jan 12, 2010, 1:19 PM
Post #21 of 33
(3258 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1769
|
Cycling helmets are very common in adventure races, where you need one helmet that you can wear during all the different activities.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jan 12, 2010, 1:46 PM
Post #22 of 33
(3239 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
csproul wrote: Cycling helmets are very common in adventure races, where you need one helmet that you can wear during all the different activities.
Ah, and here I thought it was for less aerodynamic drag when racing up the cliff.
Oh, and fashion, too. I don't think those glasses would work as well with a climbing helmet shape.
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Jan 12, 2010, 3:28 PM
Post #23 of 33
(3178 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
sungam wrote: yokese wrote: jermanimal wrote: No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope? I do. Always. It seems that you and I are in the minority, though. That makes three of us. The only time I skipped out was with mr burns, when we had to pass a knot 15 feet off the deck on a 20 foot jug.
In the dark. glad you did that and set it up for us to rap off easily. cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Jan 12, 2010, 3:39 PM
Post #24 of 33
(3166 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
doktor_g wrote: no. no biner needed unless ugly traverse and even then I'd rather be caught by a gri-gri or backup knot than something with 20 something sharp teeth. g
Just curious, why only on a traverse (and someone else noted only on overhanging terrain)? Is there a greater threat of losing the jug on traverses and / or overhanging terrain?
I was personally taught to use a biner over the rope, but that served two purposes: 1) save the ascender if it worked itself loose and; 2) one can take the "pull" end of the rope coming out of the grigri and loop it through the top biner for ease of pulling oneself up the rope.
And sorry to turn this back into a "why don't you tie backup knots when you jug" thread again but why don't you tie back up knots when you jug?
It's a serious question and I'm hoping for a technical answer.
edit: added missing word
(This post was edited by Gmburns2000 on Jan 12, 2010, 3:41 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jan 12, 2010, 3:49 PM
Post #25 of 33
(3159 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Gmburns2000 wrote: sungam wrote: yokese wrote: jermanimal wrote: No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope? I do. Always. It seems that you and I are in the minority, though. That makes three of us. The only time I skipped out was with mr burns, when we had to pass a knot 15 feet off the deck on a 20 foot jug. In the dark. glad you did that and set it up for us to rap off easily. cheers.
"Uh, yeah, I guess I can do it pretty quick"
"Okay, you go first - and give me your headlamp, we forgot ours".
Though I was refering to the the start of that day, when we jugged past that first step on the approach to save walking around - the one where the rope just magically dropped like 10 feet, and we had to pass a knot right on the edge of that frickin annoying lip. Who was jugging when the rope slipped, was it me or you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
