Forums: Climbing Information: General:
how not to do it
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for General

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


jermanimal


Jan 11, 2010, 12:33 PM
Post #1 of 33 (3719 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 7, 2007
Posts: 200

how not to do it
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

heading to an adventure racing camp this spring...here is a picture from last years camp. would any one else have a problem with an instructor showing beginner to ascend like this?

so maybe you don't go through all the commands with your buddies, but seems if you are instructing you should follow all the usage recommendations for the climbing equipment.


(This post was edited by jermanimal on Jan 11, 2010, 12:33 PM)
Attachments: bolls_camp_2009_104.sized.jpg (139 KB)


johnwesely


Jan 11, 2010, 12:38 PM
Post #2 of 33 (3695 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5344

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post



What is the big deal?


shimanilami


Jan 11, 2010, 12:40 PM
Post #3 of 33 (3690 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used?


kennoyce


Jan 11, 2010, 12:43 PM
Post #4 of 33 (3677 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1338

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Looks right to me. I don't have any idea what they could do better.


jermanimal


Jan 11, 2010, 12:47 PM
Post #5 of 33 (3668 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 7, 2007
Posts: 200

Re: [kennoyce] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?


kennoyce


Jan 11, 2010, 12:49 PM
Post #6 of 33 (3658 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1338

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Not on a low angle jug like that. I would take the time to do it on a steep or traversing pitch, but its pretty much pointless in that pic.


doktor_g


Jan 11, 2010, 12:50 PM
Post #7 of 33 (3657 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 152

Re: [kennoyce] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

That's ok for doing it for yourself. It looks vertical with little chance of the jugs coming off. If you're instructing noobs though. You should at least comment on back-up which I don't see in the photo. Since it's close to the ground you can't just be tied-in to the end of the rope as you would on El-Cap for a back-up. You might consider a clove or a gri-gri below the jugs for instructive purposes. Otherwise I don't see a whole lot wrong with this.
G


edge


Jan 11, 2010, 12:50 PM
Post #8 of 33 (3657 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120

Re: [shimanilami] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shimanilami wrote:
What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used?

Well, the anodization clearly doesn't match his outfit at all. The helmet somewhat compliments the jacket, but really what is needed here is a light beige cashmere scarf to reflect the Dockers pants. (God I hope they have crotch gussets for freedom of movement and internal knee patches!!!!11!!)

The glasses are so poseurish, and yet I can't look away; they mesmerize me.

I assume that beginners would be taught to tie in occasionally or have a top rope belay until they get comfortable with the technique, but this guy is clearly hardcore. I can almost smell the Under Armor undergarments from here.

Oh wait, I get it! There are trees behind him. Cut them all down so that the routes can dry quicker and the crag dogs will have a place to run.


doktor_g


Jan 11, 2010, 12:53 PM
Post #9 of 33 (3642 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 152

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

no. no biner needed unless ugly traverse and even then I'd rather be caught by a gri-gri or backup knot than something with 20 something sharp teeth.

g


yokese


Jan 11, 2010, 1:00 PM
Post #10 of 33 (3628 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 672

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jermanimal wrote:
No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?

I do. Always. It seems that you and I are in the minority, though.


shimanilami


Jan 11, 2010, 1:05 PM
Post #11 of 33 (3611 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'll add that this is for an adventure racing camp. If you put in backups and all that crap, then where's the adventure?

Seriously, though. I don't think it would hurt to instruct noob racers to put a 'biner in the top holes. It's quick and easy, and it might save one of those idiots from their idiocy.


sungam


Jan 11, 2010, 1:09 PM
Post #12 of 33 (3595 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26800

Re: [yokese] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

yokese wrote:
jermanimal wrote:
No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?

I do. Always. It seems that you and I are in the minority, though.
That makes three of us. The only time I skipped out was with mr burns, when we had to pass a knot 15 feet off the deck on a 20 foot jug.


bill413


Jan 11, 2010, 1:21 PM
Post #13 of 33 (3578 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674

Re: [edge] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

edge wrote:
shimanilami wrote:
What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used?

Well, the anodization clearly doesn't match his outfit at all. The helmet somewhat compliments the jacket, but really what is needed here is a light beige cashmere scarf to reflect the Dockers pants. (God I hope they have crotch gussets for freedom of movement and internal knee patches!!!!11!!)

The glasses are so poseurish, and yet I can't look away; they mesmerize me.

I assume that beginners would be taught to tie in occasionally or have a top rope belay until they get comfortable with the technique, but this guy is clearly hardcore. I can almost smell the Under Armor undergarments from here.

Oh wait, I get it! There are trees behind him. Cut them all down so that the routes can dry quicker and the crag dogs will have a place to run.

I think the glasses are very much in tune with the helmet. It's coloration and pattern leads your eye directly to the glasses as a natural complement.


I would think that the top biner would be good in racing because when you're going for speed (especially when learning) you are more likely to flail or move the ascender in an odd way that might cause it to unclip. Of course, if the rigging & unrigging are part of your time, then adding the biners would slow the setup time.


sbaclimber


Jan 11, 2010, 1:48 PM
Post #14 of 33 (3540 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 3118

Re: [edge] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

edge wrote:
shimanilami wrote:
What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used?
Well, the anodization clearly doesn't match his outfit at all.
...but this guy is clearly hardcore.
...There are trees behind him.
Are you sure it is a guy!?
...."it" looks pretty feminine to me...


(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Jan 11, 2010, 1:49 PM)


malcolm777b


Jan 11, 2010, 3:29 PM
Post #15 of 33 (3426 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 8, 2009
Posts: 204

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jermanimal wrote:
No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?

Nope. I tie back up knots. That being said, the second ascender is the backup to the first. If you tie backup knots, then the knots are a second backup. Without backup knots, 2 ascenders have to fail to cause a groundfall. I'm mostly concerned about failing ascenders when I'm passing a piece and have only 1 ascender on the rope.

What I can't tell from the picture is how this person is attached to the ascenders. There is a harness, so I assume that there is some attachment point.

Edit: What does strike me as odd though is the completely outstretched arm and legs not straight without tension in the system coming off of the top ascender. This setup does not seem efficient as too much of the bodyweight will be taken by the arm on the top ascender. That is, if anything, what is wrong with this picture.


(This post was edited by malcolm777b on Jan 11, 2010, 3:34 PM)


dugl33


Jan 11, 2010, 5:06 PM
Post #16 of 33 (3347 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2009
Posts: 740

Re: [sbaclimber] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

sbaclimber wrote:
edge wrote:
shimanilami wrote:
What exactly is wrong with how those jugs are being used?
Well, the anodization clearly doesn't match his outfit at all.
...but this guy is clearly hardcore.
...There are trees behind him.
Are you sure it is a guy!?
...."it" looks pretty feminine to me...

Yeah, I agree. Skin looks smooth like a babies bottom and those don't look like guy thighs. She might even be pretty underneath her bmx costume.

Not sure what to make of the bulging neck vein... must be working hard.


dugl33


Jan 11, 2010, 5:13 PM
Post #17 of 33 (3339 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2009
Posts: 740

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The thing that is impossible to tell from that pic is if she is actually attached to her ascenders. Are those daisies attached to her harness? Where are the etriers? Or are those etriers, in which case where are the daisies?

Top biner gets bonus points but physical connection to the ascenders is the critical question.


sherpa79


Jan 11, 2010, 5:44 PM
Post #18 of 33 (3302 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 108

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

As long as it's got both of the jugs attached to the harness, I don't see the problem.

There hasn't been near enough adventure in that photo. The pants are still clean.......


potreroed


Jan 11, 2010, 6:29 PM
Post #19 of 33 (3258 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2001
Posts: 1454

Re: [jermanimal] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jermanimal wrote:
No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?

Nope, don't use back-up knots either.


JAB


Jan 11, 2010, 11:21 PM
Post #20 of 33 (3194 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 373

Re: [potreroed] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Is that a cycling helmet?


csproul


Jan 12, 2010, 5:19 AM
Post #21 of 33 (3099 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1769

Re: [JAB] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Cycling helmets are very common in adventure races, where you need one helmet that you can wear during all the different activities.


bill413


Jan 12, 2010, 5:46 AM
Post #22 of 33 (3080 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674

Re: [csproul] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

csproul wrote:
Cycling helmets are very common in adventure races, where you need one helmet that you can wear during all the different activities.

Ah, and here I thought it was for less aerodynamic drag when racing up the cliff.

Oh, and fashion, too. I don't think those glasses would work as well with a climbing helmet shape.


Gmburns2000


Jan 12, 2010, 7:28 AM
Post #23 of 33 (3019 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15253

Re: [sungam] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

sungam wrote:
yokese wrote:
jermanimal wrote:
No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?

I do. Always. It seems that you and I are in the minority, though.
That makes three of us. The only time I skipped out was with mr burns, when we had to pass a knot 15 feet off the deck on a 20 foot jug.

In the dark. glad you did that and set it up for us to rap off easily. cheers.


Gmburns2000


Jan 12, 2010, 7:39 AM
Post #24 of 33 (3007 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15253

Re: [doktor_g] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

doktor_g wrote:
no. no biner needed unless ugly traverse and even then I'd rather be caught by a gri-gri or backup knot than something with 20 something sharp teeth.

g

Just curious, why only on a traverse (and someone else noted only on overhanging terrain)? Is there a greater threat of losing the jug on traverses and / or overhanging terrain?

I was personally taught to use a biner over the rope, but that served two purposes: 1) save the ascender if it worked itself loose and; 2) one can take the "pull" end of the rope coming out of the grigri and loop it through the top biner for ease of pulling oneself up the rope.

And sorry to turn this back into a "why don't you tie backup knots when you jug" thread again but why don't you tie back up knots when you jug?

It's a serious question and I'm hoping for a technical answer.

edit: added missing word


(This post was edited by Gmburns2000 on Jan 12, 2010, 7:41 AM)


sungam


Jan 12, 2010, 7:49 AM
Post #25 of 33 (3000 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26800

Re: [Gmburns2000] how not to do it [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Gmburns2000 wrote:
sungam wrote:
yokese wrote:
jermanimal wrote:
No one else, puts a biner at the top to lock in the rope?

I do. Always. It seems that you and I are in the minority, though.
That makes three of us. The only time I skipped out was with mr burns, when we had to pass a knot 15 feet off the deck on a 20 foot jug.

In the dark. glad you did that and set it up for us to rap off easily. cheers.
"Wait, Magnus, you know how to pass a knot really quick while rapping, right?"
"Uh, yeah, I guess I can do it pretty quick"
"Okay, you go first - and give me your headlamp, we forgot ours".Laugh


Though I was refering to the the start of that day, when we jugged past that first step on the approach to save walking around - the one where the rope just magically dropped like 10 feet, and we had to pass a knot right on the edge of that frickin annoying lip. Who was jugging when the rope slipped, was it me or you?

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : General

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$53.96 (10% off)
$35.96 (10% off)
$40.46 (10% off)
$12.56 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook