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gmggg


Jan 30, 2010, 6:58 PM
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Re: [fresh] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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sspssp


Jan 30, 2010, 8:12 PM
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Re: [tyify] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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tyify wrote:
Human are kinda like cats to certain degree.

A cat thrown out of a 1-2 story window will land without injury/minimal injury...However you throw a cat out of a 3 story window and its almost guarnteed to be injured/killed. A cat thrown out a 4-upwards story window will survive with minimal injury. The cat at 3 stories doesn't have enough time to right itself for the landing. The cat at 4 up stories has time and can absorb the shock by landing on its feet. The reason is that when you have time to prepare for the landing you can make it a lot better.

The concept is sound but I call BS on your numbers. I remember seeing a documentary (on all sorts of animal abilities) and they held cats upside down (by their legs) and dropped from the height of the ceiling and the cat landed feet first. The ceiling may have been higher than 8 feet, but no way it was 3 or 4 stories...

But I can vouch from personal experience that falling 25 feet and landing on your side results in debilitating injury. (Wish I had been a cat...)


(This post was edited by sspssp on Jan 30, 2010, 8:13 PM)


shockabuku


Jan 31, 2010, 3:33 AM
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Re: [sspssp] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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sspssp wrote:
tyify wrote:
Human are kinda like cats to certain degree.

A cat thrown out of a 1-2 story window will land without injury/minimal injury...However you throw a cat out of a 3 story window and its almost guarnteed to be injured/killed. A cat thrown out a 4-upwards story window will survive with minimal injury. The cat at 3 stories doesn't have enough time to right itself for the landing. The cat at 4 up stories has time and can absorb the shock by landing on its feet. The reason is that when you have time to prepare for the landing you can make it a lot better.

The concept is sound but I call BS on your numbers. I remember seeing a documentary (on all sorts of animal abilities) and they held cats upside down (by their legs) and dropped from the height of the ceiling and the cat landed feet first. The ceiling may have been higher than 8 feet, but no way it was 3 or 4 stories...

Cats falling from higher up have time to spread their bodies out and achieve terminal velocity at much lower speeds. They then have a much better chance of surviving the fall. At mid-level heights they can't do that and tend to get hurt.


jt512


Jan 31, 2010, 6:51 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
sspssp wrote:
tyify wrote:
Human are kinda like cats to certain degree.

A cat thrown out of a 1-2 story window will land without injury/minimal injury...However you throw a cat out of a 3 story window and its almost guarnteed to be injured/killed. A cat thrown out a 4-upwards story window will survive with minimal injury. The cat at 3 stories doesn't have enough time to right itself for the landing. The cat at 4 up stories has time and can absorb the shock by landing on its feet. The reason is that when you have time to prepare for the landing you can make it a lot better.

The concept is sound but I call BS on your numbers. I remember seeing a documentary (on all sorts of animal abilities) and they held cats upside down (by their legs) and dropped from the height of the ceiling and the cat landed feet first. The ceiling may have been higher than 8 feet, but no way it was 3 or 4 stories...

Cats falling from higher up have time to spread their bodies out and achieve terminal velocity at much lower speeds. They then have a much better chance of surviving the fall. At mid-level heights they can't do that and tend to get hurt.

Bullshit.

Jay


tehbillzor


Jan 31, 2010, 8:30 AM
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Re: [dancesonrocks] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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At the cliff(50ft high) about 20 min walk form my dorm room their were 2 drunk guys that fell off about 7 years and walked away from it, but 2 years ago a young kid fell off and died.



Edited for correct spelling


(This post was edited by tehbillzor on Jan 31, 2010, 9:17 AM)


jt512


Jan 31, 2010, 9:11 AM
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Re: [tehbillzor] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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tehbillzor wrote:
At the cliff(50ft high) about 20 min walk form my dorm room their were 2 drunk guys that fell of about 7 years and walked away from it, but 2 years ago a young kid fell of and died.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OonDPGwAyfQ


shockabuku


Jan 31, 2010, 9:51 AM
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Re: [jt512] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
sspssp wrote:
tyify wrote:
Human are kinda like cats to certain degree.

A cat thrown out of a 1-2 story window will land without injury/minimal injury...However you throw a cat out of a 3 story window and its almost guarnteed to be injured/killed. A cat thrown out a 4-upwards story window will survive with minimal injury. The cat at 3 stories doesn't have enough time to right itself for the landing. The cat at 4 up stories has time and can absorb the shock by landing on its feet. The reason is that when you have time to prepare for the landing you can make it a lot better.

The concept is sound but I call BS on your numbers. I remember seeing a documentary (on all sorts of animal abilities) and they held cats upside down (by their legs) and dropped from the height of the ceiling and the cat landed feet first. The ceiling may have been higher than 8 feet, but no way it was 3 or 4 stories...

Cats falling from higher up have time to spread their bodies out and achieve terminal velocity at much lower speeds. They then have a much better chance of surviving the fall. At mid-level heights they can't do that and tend to get hurt.

Bullshit.

Jay

No Jay, catshit.

Here, read this. Even includes a citation of a published medical journal, should be just your style.


jt512


Jan 31, 2010, 10:08 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
jt512 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
sspssp wrote:
tyify wrote:
Human are kinda like cats to certain degree.

A cat thrown out of a 1-2 story window will land without injury/minimal injury...However you throw a cat out of a 3 story window and its almost guarnteed to be injured/killed. A cat thrown out a 4-upwards story window will survive with minimal injury. The cat at 3 stories doesn't have enough time to right itself for the landing. The cat at 4 up stories has time and can absorb the shock by landing on its feet. The reason is that when you have time to prepare for the landing you can make it a lot better.

The concept is sound but I call BS on your numbers. I remember seeing a documentary (on all sorts of animal abilities) and they held cats upside down (by their legs) and dropped from the height of the ceiling and the cat landed feet first. The ceiling may have been higher than 8 feet, but no way it was 3 or 4 stories...

Cats falling from higher up have time to spread their bodies out and achieve terminal velocity at much lower speeds. They then have a much better chance of surviving the fall. At mid-level heights they can't do that and tend to get hurt.

Bullshit.

Jay

No Jay, catshit.

Here, read this. Even includes a citation of a published medical journal, should be just your style.

From your source: "The study authors speculated that after falling five stories the cats reached terminal velocity and thereafter relaxed and spread their bodies to increase drag."

To which I say "Bullshit."

Then your source continues: "However an alternative interpretation which came out of internet chat[7] of the study would be that upon an excess of seven stories the cats experience a higher fatality rate which precludes the owner from bringing them in for medical attention."

Which seems a hell of a lot more plausible.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 31, 2010, 10:12 AM)


dynosore


Jan 31, 2010, 10:22 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
sspssp wrote:
tyify wrote:
Human are kinda like cats to certain degree.

A cat thrown out of a 1-2 story window will land without injury/minimal injury...However you throw a cat out of a 3 story window and its almost guarnteed to be injured/killed. A cat thrown out a 4-upwards story window will survive with minimal injury. The cat at 3 stories doesn't have enough time to right itself for the landing. The cat at 4 up stories has time and can absorb the shock by landing on its feet. The reason is that when you have time to prepare for the landing you can make it a lot better.

The concept is sound but I call BS on your numbers. I remember seeing a documentary (on all sorts of animal abilities) and they held cats upside down (by their legs) and dropped from the height of the ceiling and the cat landed feet first. The ceiling may have been higher than 8 feet, but no way it was 3 or 4 stories...

Cats falling from higher up have time to spread their bodies out and achieve terminal velocity at much lower speeds. They then have a much better chance of surviving the fall. At mid-level heights they can't do that and tend to get hurt.

A cat falling at terminal velocity or anything close to it would make a crater, and would use up all 9 lives at once.


dynosore


Jan 31, 2010, 10:27 AM
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Re: [dynosore] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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A skydiver falls over 1000 feet before reaching terminal velocity, but the authors speculate that a cat reaches terminal velocity in less than 50 feet? I speculate that the "authors" were drunk, mean spirited high schoolers tossing cats out of their mom's 5th floor apartment.


dynosore


Jan 31, 2010, 10:33 AM
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Re: [reno] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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reno wrote:
These are the exceptions, not the norm. The minimal chance of survival in such situations is so microscopic as to defy description, and I'd not want to use such events as justification to jump out of a plane without a chute.

As a rule, anything over twice the person's height has a greater than 50% chance of major injury.(American College of Surgeons, Committee on Trauma, Guidelines for Optimal Trauma Care. 1998, revised.)

So... once you get above 12 feet, you have a good chance of serious injury.

Thank you.


(This post was edited by dynosore on Jan 31, 2010, 10:34 AM)


msiwoski


Feb 1, 2010, 6:01 PM
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Re: [jt512] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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In my biostatistics class, this particular study did come up. They analyzed data, I believe from New York, and concluded that mortality rates declined after the fourth floor.

Why were we discussing this particular study in my biostatistics class? We were discussing sampling bias and that these researchers were biased in going to a veterinary clinic and recording these falls.


jt512


Feb 1, 2010, 6:10 PM
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msiwoski wrote:
In my biostatistics class, this particular study did come up. They analyzed data, I believe from New York, and concluded that mortality rates declined after the fourth floor.

Why were we discussing this particular study in my biostatistics class? We were discussing sampling bias and that these researchers were biased in going to a veterinary clinic and recording these falls.

Where are you studying biostats? What's your major?

Jay


skiclimb


Feb 1, 2010, 7:18 PM
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A little over 20 feet on hard ground is my best (still dumb)...Lots more in snow.... Fun!!


msiwoski


Feb 3, 2010, 1:34 PM
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UBC, studying Animal Biology :)


osu_cowboy


Feb 3, 2010, 1:47 PM
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Re: [dancesonrocks] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
he suggested jumping out of a 2nd story window instead of staying inside a house with zombies in it


It sounds like your friend needs to work on his zombie survival skills. No one prepared for an attack would get trapped on the second floor of a zombie infested building...


jt512


Feb 3, 2010, 1:59 PM
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Re: [msiwoski] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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msiwoski wrote:
UBC, studying Animal Biology :)

Well, I'm glad to hear that biologists are (finally) studying statistics.

Jay


altelis


Feb 4, 2010, 9:36 AM
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jt512 wrote:
msiwoski wrote:
UBC, studying Animal Biology :)

Well, I'm glad to hear that biologists are (finally) studying statistics.

Jay

I was a philosophy major and FAR from a statistics buff. Hell, I don't really know how to do anything in stats besides percentages. I admit I am woefully ignorant of the vast majority of the stuff. But I know how to interpret some basic stuff.

I'm in my first year in med school and it is SCARY how many people are boggled by things like percentages, p values, the basic idea of why one would run a multivariate regressions, etc. Reading (even skimming) the results section of a journal article is beyond many of my classmates, who have to take the discussion on blind faith. Its really actually scary.


dancesonrocks


Feb 4, 2010, 5:24 PM
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Re: [osu_cowboy] How high can you fall from without debilitating injury? [In reply to]
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osu_cowboy wrote:
In reply to:
he suggested jumping out of a 2nd story window instead of staying inside a house with zombies in it


It sounds like your friend needs to work on his zombie survival skills. No one prepared for an attack would get trapped on the second floor of a zombie infested building...
Oh he ended up doing alright.

I mean, look, this thread turned out to be undead but we all survived.


JohnCook


Feb 5, 2010, 3:46 PM
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Fell 85 ft down Brown Corner at Stoney Middleton. It overhangs a bit so didn't hit anything until the ground. Only the last inch hurt. Got into the pose I had seen parachutists land in and hoped, managed a forward roll. No breaks but everything on my body was bruised, from soles of feet to shoulders and neck. Lost about 1/4 inch in height due to compression. Was very very lucky and restrained myself from soloing for a long time after that.


ozoneclimber


Feb 5, 2010, 5:08 PM
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From the view point of a paramedic, if you were to fall from a height of three "body length" or greater, i.e. three times your own height, we automatically assume that there has been spinal injury and treat for it.

Now, we are mostly just covering our asses by doing this, but say the average adult male takes a fall from a height of 18 feet (6ft x 3) I will be packaging him for transport wearing a c-collar and laying on a back-board. Yet I have treated people for falls of 2-3 feet who had broken arms and/or legs...

It all depends on the way you land...


JohnCook


Feb 5, 2010, 5:15 PM
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This was way back and I felt better after the 1 mile walk to the public phone. I did check myself out for strange pains and 'numbness', which was the practice in those days. Most amusing thing about htis is that one of the people I was climbing with that day broke his ankle trying to jump over a very low fence. Still work on the principle that 'shit happens' and don't get too worried as you can do real damage falling out of bed.


acorneau


Feb 5, 2010, 8:57 PM
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I had a friend break his leg while standing on the ground.

He tripped over the trailer hitch of his truck while putting some groceries in the bed. He fell on the ground, thought to himself, "someone could get hurt like that", tried to get up, and that's when he noticed his tib/fib was all floppy and bent.
Shocked


Crag_Dweller


Feb 8, 2010, 2:01 PM
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[quote "dancesonrocks"]I like the replies so far.

[quote]Not really a fair question. Too many variables in the equation. People can break bones from falls that are very short. Then you have situations where people fall from 40 feet and walk away without a scratch. Narrowing it to landing on feet may help.[/quote]

Consider the question narrowed down to landing on your feet, also assume that this person does not have abnormally bad luck and is otherwise of a sound body.

The situation I'm sure is fictional so it's not something that will be tested on live human beings; however, I think he wants the fiction to have a basis in fact.

I gave him a preliminary answer of 25 feet but told him I'd try to research the topic. My next step is asking a few doctors I know, but I wanted general feedback from climbers as well.[/quote]

in theory, a 20 foot fall will generate enough force to cause damage to internal organs that will cause death. but, i've watched someone take a 35 foot fall and, from what I was told, he was climbing a few weeks later. he landed flat on his back on a dirt path.

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