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kingbiscuit
Feb 13, 2010, 8:55 AM
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I'm going to a location that has shuts similar to the ones listed but there is no clip at the top to keep the rope from coming up and out. The gap is just the thickness of a rope. Some of them you can use big enough caribiners that there is no way for them to come up and out, but others the gap is too big. I usually just keep one of the lower bolts clipped and pray to good it doesn't come up and out, but I am guessing there is a safer way. Any ideas? http://www.fixeusa.com/super_shut.htm It is a total mystery why they set up the anchor bolts this way.
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jmvc
Feb 13, 2010, 11:42 AM
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Can't think of a safer way. On the other hand I'd say it would be impossible for the rope to escape if you keep below the shut, always keep the rope wheighted and get lowered smoothly. I've lowered off similar things with no backup, it depends on the situation how risky it is.
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umeroz7
Feb 13, 2010, 1:44 PM
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sandrock AL?
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johnwesely
Feb 13, 2010, 1:54 PM
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umeroz7 wrote: sandrock AL? Probably.
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budman
Feb 13, 2010, 3:56 PM
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Many at The New were that way years ago. Easy to loop the rope over as you top out. Usually just crappy cold shuts not welded. It works but not good in the long run as well as you must be vigilant in rapping off or just lower and clean.
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kachoong
Feb 13, 2010, 4:21 PM
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kingbiscuit wrote: I'm going to a location that has shuts similar to the ones listed but there is no clip at the top to keep the rope from coming up and out. The gap is just the thickness of a rope. Some of them you can use big enough caribiners that there is no way for them to come up and out, but others the gap is too big. I usually just keep one of the lower bolts clipped and pray to good it doesn't come up and out, but I am guessing there is a safer way. Any ideas? http://www.fixeusa.com/super_shut.htm It is a total mystery why they set up the anchor bolts this way. Why don't you clip locking biners to them and top rope off those or even put a dogbone between shut and locker to keep the system more stable. Then when it comes time to clean, rap off the shuts rather than lower.
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kingbiscuit
Feb 13, 2010, 4:39 PM
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umeroz7 wrote: sandrock AL? This is Valley of The Moon in SD County. The shuts are made by a climbing company they aren't the hardware store variety, so that is good. Think what I am going to do is bring some tape with me and just close the gap some so that the caribiners can't come out of the wider shuts without a significant upward force. I always rap off these I never lower.
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kennoyce
Feb 13, 2010, 5:05 PM
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I've climbed hundreds of routes with open shuts for the anchors. Just do what you said and keep the last draw clipped for TRing (Climb on the side of the rope that isn't clipped into the last bolt so that you never have to unclip it). When you're done TRing, the last person who is lowered just unclips the draw on his way down. You don't have to worry about the rope coming out of the shuts at this point since the rope is weighted. While I certainly wouldn't recommend putting up new routes with open shuts, I never hesitate to climb a route that has them.
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caughtinside
Feb 13, 2010, 5:33 PM
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Open shuts were somewhat standard for a long time. If you're going to toprope, the best method IMO is to girth hitch a sling to the shut, and clip rope and biner to that. THe girth hitch is tighter on the metal than a biner would be. if it makes you feel any better, I've never heard of a rope popping out of shuts on a rap or a lower. Keeping one bolt clipped is a good safety idea.
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whipper
Feb 13, 2010, 5:36 PM
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caughtinside wrote: Open shuts were somewhat standard for a long time. If you're going to toprope, the best method IMO is to girth hitch a sling to the shut, and clip rope and biner to that. THe girth hitch is tighter on the metal than a biner would be. if it makes you feel any better, I've never heard of a rope popping out of shuts on a rap or a lower. Keeping one bolt clipped is a good safety idea. exactly
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brokesomeribs
Feb 13, 2010, 5:40 PM
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caughtinside wrote: If you're going to toprope, the best method IMO is to girth hitch a sling to the shut, and clip rope and biner to that. THe girth hitch is tighter on the metal than a biner would be. I would advocate a clove hitch instead of a girth hitch because it doesn't kink the sling as sharply, but for TR, it probably doesn't matter all that much. Definitely don't TR directly from the shuts - as much for safety as because it's a dick thing to do and wears out the shuts way too quickly.
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johnwesely
Feb 13, 2010, 5:41 PM
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I am not really sure how a rope or biners could pop out of the shuts unless you climbed above them.
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johnwesely
Feb 13, 2010, 9:43 PM
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j_ung wrote: johnwesely wrote: I am not really sure how a rope or biners could pop out of the shuts unless you climbed above them. Remember the old rope-wave experiment from grade-school science? I sure do.
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dugl33
Feb 13, 2010, 11:35 PM
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brokesomeribs wrote: caughtinside wrote: If you're going to toprope, the best method IMO is to girth hitch a sling to the shut, and clip rope and biner to that. THe girth hitch is tighter on the metal than a biner would be. I would advocate a clove hitch instead of a girth hitch because it doesn't kink the sling as sharply, but for TR, it probably doesn't matter all that much. Definitely don't TR directly from the shuts - as much for safety as because it's a dick thing to do and wears out the shuts way too quickly. +1 This, combined with leaving the last bolt clipped is the gold standard for TR.
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curator
Feb 14, 2010, 1:14 AM
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Yeah, open shuts suck but, in regards to the 'rope wave' experiment. Try standing on the ground and flicking your rope out of the open shuts. After about 20 minutes you'll never really worry about lowering off of them again.
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pendereki
Feb 14, 2010, 2:44 AM
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curator wrote: Yeah, open shuts suck but, in regards to the 'rope wave' experiment. Try standing on the ground and flicking your rope out of the open shuts. After about 20 minutes you'll never really worry about lowering off of them again. Have you actually done this???
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acorneau
Feb 14, 2010, 2:48 AM
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brokesomeribs wrote: I would advocate a clove hitch instead of a girth hitch because it doesn't kink the sling as sharply, but for TR, it probably doesn't matter all that much. Definitely don't TR directly from the shuts - as much for safety as because it's a dick thing to do and wears out the shuts way too quickly. +1
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Rudmin
Feb 14, 2010, 2:53 AM
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A slip knot looped over the shut also works and lets the runner come out with both strands in the same direction unlike the clove hitch.
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acorneau
Feb 14, 2010, 3:03 AM
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Rudmin wrote: A slip knot looped over the shut also works and lets the runner come out with both strands in the same direction unlike the clove hitch. Why would that matter?
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Rudmin
Feb 14, 2010, 3:14 AM
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brokesomeribs wrote: I would advocate a clove hitch instead of a girth hitch because it doesn't kink the sling as sharply, but for TR, it probably doesn't matter all that much. Definitely don't TR directly from the shuts - as much for safety as because it's a dick thing to do and wears out the shuts way too quickly. Also it uses less wraps which could be important if you have shoulder length slings and want to equalize two shuts.
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umeroz7
Feb 14, 2010, 3:38 AM
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duct tape to keep the rope in? sport climbers dont know about slip knots, clove hitch's, or any of that. I say just take a hammer and close those suckers up. DONE and DONE TAKE
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dugl33
Feb 14, 2010, 4:59 AM
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umeroz7 wrote: duct tape to keep the rope in? sport climbers dont know about slip knots, clove hitch's, or any of that. I say just take a hammer and close those suckers up. DONE and DONE TAKE Some bozo actually tried this at one of our local cliffs. Only succeeded in snapping the bolt shaft. Of course the dumbass left it that way. You're joking I hope (?)
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