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What gear for Zion
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timpanogos


Dec 10, 2002, 7:42 PM
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What gear for Zion
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Iíve been surfing the web looking for topoís and beta on aiding at Zion. There just is not much information out there on this. It is suggested that you do not haul on Prodigal Son, as it has a very nasty rock fall area that you must basically scramble through, as well as some traversals/pendulums or something. Anyway, Iíve also been considering the ďOriginal (Lowe) Route. Iím currently just trying to get geared up for some solo big wall climbs Ė and wondering where Iím short gear wise for this area.

Iíve basically have 2 sets of cams from #3 Zero to BD 3.5 and 2 sets of nuts. What will I need to beef up on for Zion? Can anyone tell me about the Lowe Route Ė what is, and how hard is the 5.8 free section/s.

Thanks
Chad


rockprodigy


Dec 10, 2002, 8:41 PM
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All of the classic walls can be done in a day...no need to haul. If you're going to be aiding every pitch, you'll need at least 4 sets of cams. Moonlight and Spaceshot both have pitches that go a long way with one size, i.e. entire pitches of .5 camalots. If you can free the 5.10 and up, you can go with less gear. 2 sets of stoppers and RP's should be enough.


epic_ed


Dec 10, 2002, 8:43 PM
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What formation is the Original route on? Are you talking about Angel's Landing? Can't find my damn guide book right now...

Most of the trade routes in Zion go clean--no pitons or hammer needed. Most of the C1 and C2 stuff is going to be A LOT of 1-2 inch crack. The cracks aren't completely splitter, but they tend to run consistently the same size for 20-40 a stretch. That means a lot of back cleaning and leap-frogging of gear unless you've got plenty of #1 & #2 Camelots for some routes.

Any route on Angel's Landing this time of the year is going to be in the shade, and therefore pretty cold. You might want to check out Space Shot. It gets a lot of sun and definitely goes clean--with several #2 Camelots.

Ed

[ This Message was edited by: up2top on 2002-12-10 20:53 ]


timpanogos


Dec 10, 2002, 8:54 PM
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I'm not thinking about going until next spring - just trying to obtain the needed gear through the winter.

On second look, it appears that this is the original name (FA's) for Moonlight Buttress.

Chad

Wow, you sure hear alot of different stories - the aid dude at the BD outlet store here in SLC said that Prodigal son took him 3 days the first time he climbed it - and Moonlight is rated V.

????

[ This Message was edited by: timpanogos on 2002-12-10 21:00 ]


wigglestick


Dec 10, 2002, 9:10 PM
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I have done both Prodigal Son and Moonlight buttress. Although Prodigal is rated harder (C2+ vs C1) I think it is an easier wall. There is tons of fixed gear. Almost every pitch has a pretty decent sized bolt ladder and the aid crux is pretty short. On Moonlight the pitches are long and continuous. Take as many blue, yellow, orange, and red tcus as you can. If you take less than 4 sets you will be doing some serious backcleaning. And if have less than 7 sets you will have to leapfrog cams quite a bit and that could be a scary experience for your first wall/solo. On just about every wall in Zion the hauling sucks for either the first few pitches or the last few. The hauling on moonlight wasn't too bad once you get to the top of the 3rd pitch. The first three pitches traverse substantially so I would suggest doing the first three pitches without the bags and then using the retreat system set up directly below the rocker block to haul up to that point. I did Prodigal in a day but I can't imagine the hauling being too bad until the last pitches. You are correct there is a hideous scramble with tons of loose rocks at the top. I had a television sized boulder that was dislodged by a party above miss me by about 3 feet while I was on the 5th pitch. It can be done but I wouldn't want to do it. You might want to consider Spaceshot as well. The hauling for the first 3 pitches sucks but after that it gets quite a bit easier. However, the descent from spaceshot is not as straight forward as the descent from any of the routes on the other side of the canyon.

But no matter what route you choose the most important piece of gear you can buy is HB offsets. Sizes 3-6 in the brassies are the most useful sizes. If you have 3 sets you will thank me later. A set or 2 of the aluminum ones are quite useful as well but not as crucial as the brass HBs. If you need anymore beta on either of those routes let me know and I will see what I can come up with. Also, if you haven't done so already, check out http://www.bigwall.com. It has pretty decent topos of all the routes you are considering.

[ This Message was edited by: wigglestick on 2002-12-10 21:12 ]


coconutz


Dec 11, 2002, 12:54 AM
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i can't imagine that you are having trouble finding info on that route

check these out
http://www.utahphotowild.com/climbing/moonlite.gif

http://www.bigwall.com/moonlite.gif

http://www.bigwall.com/mlbbeta.html

http://www.bware.org/tr/moonlight_beta.html

http://www.diffendal.com/moonlight.html

http://www.geocities.com/pipeline/rapids/2748/zion.htm

hope this helps...there is more than enough info here to keep you busy till then


spike


Dec 11, 2002, 7:29 AM
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I did Moonlight Buttress, Prodigal Sun and Lunar Ecstasy this year. All go clean. YELLOW ALIEN CAMS !!! The 4th pitch on Moonlight Buttress eats up YELLOW ALIEN CAMS. You will be leap frogging YELLOW ALIEN CAMS !!! Prodigal Sun you will need Tri Cams for the blown out piton scars. I think the brown Tri Cam worked the best. Enjoy the climb --- take a portaledge. I don't understand why climbers want to do a wall in a day - or a single push. You start early in the morning and most of the time summit in the dark. I plan and prepare all winter (I don't like the cold) to climb 5 to 6 walls between May and October. Climb 3 pitches a day, maybe fix a 4th. Set up the portaledge and enjoy the adventure!!!


mountainmonkey


Dec 11, 2002, 7:51 AM
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My Beta



flamer


Dec 11, 2002, 12:45 PM
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If you are looking for info on the Lowe route on Angels Landing I'll tell you what I know. My buddy did about half and told me this; The first few pitchs that go free and claim a 5.8 rating are supposed to be much harder! He said think at least 5.10. Also the ledges labeled for bivy's are not very good and you will probably want a port-a-ledge. Like I said this is second hand... I would reiterate the call for HB offset brassies. You probably don't need them on moonlight(I didn't), but they are nice on Prodigal, and any other route you will be using thin nuts. Also Small cams(TCU's or Aliens) and lots of them. On Moonlight in a day we took 4 yellow and orange, 3 blue(tcu), and of the size bigger than orange. You can leave a BOMBER nut every 10 feet and the fall is clean so stay as light as possible.
We do walls in a day so we can climb more walls! And because it's more fun then carrying huge loads of stuff up and down. If you want to "enjoy the adventure" as you put it that's AWESOME! But please let us pass if we catch you . Hell we'd even fix that 4th pitch for ya!
Josh


dsafanda


Dec 11, 2002, 1:10 PM
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This months's Rock&Ice has SuperTopo topos for a few of the Zion classics. I can't remeber if it includes Prodigal Son or not but it would be worth checking out for gear recommendations if nothing else. Chris Mac is very conservative with his rack suggestions so you don't have to worry about getting sand bagged.

[ This Message was edited by: dsafanda on 2002-12-11 15:23 ]


flamer


Dec 11, 2002, 3:08 PM
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The info in the current Rock and Ice is a bit off base. There is some gear listed that you just don't really need- although I do understand that Mr. Macnamara is being generous with his suggestions. Please be careful when using cam hooks in zion! They can severly damage the soft rock and aren't needed on most routes! Please use other (clean) gear when possible! The Zion routes will not stand up to cam hooking the way the routes in the valley do!
Also in the R&I issue it states that Space Shot was once "a Proud NAILUP", yeah maybe on the first ascent! I was under the impression that Ron Olevsky used "constructive pinscarring" on the first ascent to unsure the route would go clean there after. Did it not go clean on the second ascent? Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
josh


rocknpowda


Dec 11, 2002, 3:25 PM
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My friends did the Lowe route on Angel's landing and from thier report, it seemed like quite an undertaking. But then again, maybe it was because they ran out of cigarettes on day two and then had to spend an extra night.


rockprodigy


Dec 11, 2002, 11:46 PM
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"Wow, you sure hear alot of different stories - the aid dude at the BD outlet store here in SLC said that Prodigal son took him 3 days the first time he climbed it - and Moonlight is rated V."

I've done alot of walls in Zion and never bivied. I've only done Moonlight once, I soloed it, my first ever wall solo and it took me 14 hours. It's probably the easiest of the classic walls. All the placements are straight-in cams in splitter cracks, whereas Spaceshot, Touchstone and others have tricky nutting. I only had two sets of cams on Moonlight, so I leapfrogged the cams and placed stoppers occasionaly, but I'm crazy, so everyone else reading this should get four sets of cams.


skywalker


Dec 20, 2002, 3:06 PM
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Offsets, Offsets, Offsets!!! I've climbed four walls in zion and recommend offsets. 2 sets of HB aluminum, 2 sets of HB offset brassies #3-6, I have only used #2 once. Offset aliens are pretty sweet too! Tri-cams can save your ass too! I emphasize offsets because the cracks often look more like water grooves. I haven't done the Lowe route but its shady, and looks sweet! Lunar Ecstacy is awesome and pretty straight forward, just thin. Bring 2 sets of tricams for that route (pink,red, and brown). Cheers!


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