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davidnn5
Mar 9, 2010, 8:11 AM
Post #51 of 68
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greatview wrote: Now I get it, this forum only listens to those with a whole lot of comments ... well, carry on, this place is not a happy place.
Don't get disheartened. People don't "listen" to most comments here. They filter for crap like JT's arrogant narcissism and search for nuggets of gold. Like most searches for gold, it can take some time.
Note however that despite all the bombastic dorkery, the question got answered. Just don't call it a soft catch, because it's a dynamic belay damnit!
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greatview
Mar 9, 2010, 8:15 AM
Post #52 of 68
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sorry to have steped into your view great god of omniknowledge <- this is for that jt guy.
edit: david, maybe ill just continue reading and put some on an ignore list.
(This post was edited by greatview on Mar 9, 2010, 8:20 AM)
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davidnn5
Mar 9, 2010, 8:32 AM
Post #53 of 68
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greatview wrote: sorry to have steped into your view great god of omniknowledge <- this is for that jt guy. edit: david, maybe ill just continue reading and put some on an ignore list.
Good idea. You'll notice after some time that some people only respond when they see someone has a wrong answer; they never respond to give you the _right_ answer. I.e. "that is egregiously misinformed!" "ignore everyone else but X; they are all stupid!"
The rest of who are not right about everything may be able to help, discuss or just commiserate with whatever you're talking about.
Unless you enjoy meaningless forumfighting like I do, it's best to concentrate on the latter.
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I_do
Mar 9, 2010, 9:47 AM
Post #54 of 68
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camhead wrote: wow. terrible thread. If anyone lurking reads this, ignore absolutely EVERYTHING that has been written in here, with the exception of jt512. And this post, of course.
What did I do wrong? Please give me your consent o master of RC.N00B lore of wisdom!
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camhead
Mar 9, 2010, 1:21 PM
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I_do wrote: camhead wrote: wow. terrible thread. If anyone lurking reads this, ignore absolutely EVERYTHING that has been written in here, with the exception of jt512. And this post, of course. What did I do wrong? Please give me your consent o master of RC.N00B lore of wisdom!
you're dutch! and you didn't shoot majid.
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lena_chita
Moderator
Mar 9, 2010, 2:59 PM
Post #57 of 68
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"This is proper terminology"-- or so says the link that misspells the word "carabiners".
P.S. the original question has been answered, let's have this thread die already...
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greatview
Mar 9, 2010, 3:08 PM
Post #58 of 68
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yes, it shall die ...
according to my oxford language dictionary carabiner can also be written karabiner. but beeing german I dont know for sure as the american slang differs enourmously from the beautiful english. 
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i_h8_choss
Mar 9, 2010, 4:08 PM
Post #59 of 68
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greatview wrote: yes, it shall die ... according to my oxford language dictionary carabiner can also be written karabiner. but beeing german I dont know for sure as the american slang differs enourmously from the beautiful english.
I glady see this kind of "thread shall die" attitude happening more and more at rc.com.
and remember...."All the freaky people make the beauty of the world"-Michael Franti.
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Potts875
Mar 13, 2010, 5:23 PM
Post #61 of 68
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jt512 wrote: davidnn5 wrote: jt512 wrote: davidnn5 wrote: Among other things, the term dynamic refers to variation, versatility, taking action in relation to something, being changeable, active ... Not in climbing it doesn't. Dynamic ropes don't do any of those things. They just soften the catch by decreasing the climber's deceleration. Ditto for dynamic belays. C'mon J - are you seriously telling me a dynamic rope isn't variable, changeable or versatile? Now you're just being an idiot. Jay
Pot/Kettle..... dangerous misinformation? 
I mostly lurk here but I can only handle your posts and arrogance in the smallest of doses.
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angry
Mar 13, 2010, 5:34 PM
Post #62 of 68
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And what do deck tiles have to do with that?
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dugl33
Mar 13, 2010, 6:46 PM
Post #63 of 68
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Any belay can be considered on a spectrum from more static to more dynamic. The absolute extremes of either don't really exist for practical purposes, i.e. completely static or completely dynamic. Regardless of the mechanism you are looking to change the time and by extension the distance component of stopping forces. Imagine driving into a concrete wall vs. a block of foam.
So, with regards to climbing, the variables include the 1) properties of the rope, 2) movement of the belayer (controlled in part by the relative weights of climber and belayer), 3) friction of the belay device and braking force applied which results in slippage or lack thereof, 4) how much force qets transferred to the belayer in the first place. A long pitch, with many points of pro, and lots of drag --> the belayer may barely feel the fall, and can't do much to make the belay more dynamic. A hard sport fall though, with a heavier leader, little friction, much of the force will hit the belayer, and you will be lifted off the ground if you're not tied down.
Regardless of the mechanism, accelerating the falling climber from Vi to zero happens over a distance. Assuming force is evenly applied, greater distance = more dynamic = "softer catch"
Most of this happens automatically in the rope. Ropes (dynamic ropes) are designed to stretch. Low impact force ropes, like doubles, stretch more.
Next comes the actions of the belayer. Does she lock of hard, or allow a little controlled slip? Is she tied down to a ground anchor, and thus can not move? Does she get pulled up? Does she give a little jump and get pulled up more?
So, yes, a long-winded answer to your query, but you can see that a belayers contribution to easing the forces of a fall by increasing the time/distance component, results in a so called "dynamic belay".
***********
An example from personal experience: I was working on a route and had popped off at a fairly low crux. Catch was fine, I was fine, no probs. Went up again, fell again, catch was fine, I was fine, no probs. Went up yet again, popped off... wham! Shit that hurt. I had swung hard into the rock and bashed my hip. Lowering off I found that my belayer had (unnoticed by me) sat down, put in a tcu down by his feet, redirected the rope through it, and taken a stance like he was on a leg press machine. WTF dude? He had made a fine sitution dangerous by creating a very static belay. Not a lot of rope was out so only so much stretch.
So... think! Every situation is different, but in general you do not want an extremely static belay. Things get a little iffy when the leader might hit the ground or ledge or something else, but generally a little dynamic give is a good thing.
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mojomonkey
Mar 13, 2010, 7:04 PM
Post #64 of 68
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angry wrote: decktiles wrote: That is dangerous misinformation. A dynamic belay softens the catch. Shortening the fall is something else. <link removed> And what do deck tiles have to do with that?
It is a spammer trying to boost search engine rankings by posting links to blogs full of keyword links on other sites.
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mturner
Mar 14, 2010, 6:06 PM
Post #65 of 68
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Potts875 wrote: jt512 wrote: davidnn5 wrote: jt512 wrote: davidnn5 wrote: Among other things, the term dynamic refers to variation, versatility, taking action in relation to something, being changeable, active ... Not in climbing it doesn't. Dynamic ropes don't do any of those things. They just soften the catch by decreasing the climber's deceleration. Ditto for dynamic belays. C'mon J - are you seriously telling me a dynamic rope isn't variable, changeable or versatile? Now you're just being an idiot. Jay Pot/Kettle..... dangerous misinformation? I mostly lurk here but I can only handle your posts and arrogance in the smallest of doses.
Then you should probably go somewhere else
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onrockandice
Mar 14, 2010, 6:43 PM
Post #66 of 68
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Just read the rest of the thread. I'm letting it die. Don't read my response because it's been answered so don't read it or reply. Thread == dead.
It's the physics that occur once the load is fully on the rope and the top piece of pro that makes your statement dangerous.
If a climber falls and there-by pulls say 18" of rope through the top piece of pro they may still be on their way to a whiplash into the wall. Which ain't fun.
You can cancel that whiplash nearly instantly by jumping or managing rope slack in the system some other way. If you keep the force continuous and building as the climber falls they are going to accelerate immensely. A simply jump breaks that up and usually makes more of a straight down fall and less of a whipping fall.
Just posting what I've observed first hand.
(This post was edited by onrockandice on Mar 14, 2010, 6:55 PM)
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j_ung
Mar 15, 2010, 9:32 PM
Post #67 of 68
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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Hahahahahahahah! Woo!
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onrockandice
Mar 17, 2010, 1:11 AM
Post #68 of 68
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