Iam looking spend and portion of my tax returns. I want a good solid ice tool. I climb about a w 6/7 or so. I dont dry tool, most of the routes have very little exposed rock so thats not a issue. I cant deside between the petzl nomic, bd cobra, and the bd Viper. Now ingore the price difference, For just steep technicle ice; which tool would you chose and why. Iam open to suggestion as well.
Nomic, without question! Price isn't really the difference. I climbed Vipers, I like them better than Cobras. But Nomic takes the trophy when it comes to steep ice.
If you're climbing at that level, you already have your system so wired that you know exactly what you want. You also know that everyone's opinion doesn't matter shit.
Go swing them.
For my opinion though, those carbon BD's look cool.
angry is right, if you are climbing at that level, you probobly already know what you want, try to rent/borrow a pair of each if you can.
I found that Nomics suck on anything easier than WI 4. The vipers felt best on WI 3-4 (didn't use them on anything steeper). I haven't used the Cobras, but they look to be a slightly lighter/stiffer/more aggressive version of the viper.
If you're climbing at that level, you already have your system so wired that you know exactly what you want. You also know that everyone's opinion doesn't matter shit.
Go swing them.
For my opinion though, those carbon BD's look cool.
Agreed. The OP listed three fairly different tools and want us to decide what kind of climber he is from the internet.
All I can say is that they should all be good tools, you're not going to be disappointed by the quality of any of them.
If you're climbing at that level, you already have your system so wired that you know exactly what you want. You also know that everyone's opinion doesn't matter shit.
Go swing them.
For my opinion though, those carbon BD's look cool.
Right there with ya angry.
5.6/5.7? F6/F7? M6/M7? Australian 6 or 7?...
there's a big difference.
Now if we're talking WI6/7 then there's no reason for someone to ask this question.
If you're climbing at that level, you already have your system so wired that you know exactly what you want. You also know that everyone's opinion doesn't matter shit.
Go swing them.
For my opinion though, those carbon BD's look cool.
I am replacing my old Petzl Aztars. Iam leading w5 and top/seconding 6 maby 7s right now. My local shop does not have the Nomics. I have swung the vipers and cobras both are fine, but i have yet to stick them in to ice. So I in the research mode trying to get the most info about the various tools, theres not much in the gear reviews so far about the various ice tools. Iam simlply trying to get an overall idea of what people like and for what reason. I have only have experience with the Aztars so I know there are peolp that have used more/other tools than I have.
(This post was edited by jeepnphreak on Mar 14, 2010, 7:34 PM)
Dude! If you're climbing WI6-7 with Aztars you are a climbing GOD. Any of the mentioned tools are orders of magnitude better and EASIER to climb with than the Aztars. Get dialed in on the Nomics and you'll be leqding WI 9 in no time. Seriously, you'll learn to swing whatever you got and all of these tools are in use by really good climbers. But, never being one to pass up a chance to pontificate, here are my thoughts>
Cobra-Would be my top choice from BD. It's a light quick swing and is liked by ice technicians. They seemed to have figured out the carbon fiber manufacturing and I've not heard of any problems with them.
Nomic-Top of the line tool from anyone and would be what I would buy if I were buying today. Swings perfectly, sticks like glue and you can get them out of the ice. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complaing about them. Again, they prefer a light, quick and accurate swing. People complain about not being able to add a hammer head, but I'll but I don't think I've had to swing a hammer in 15 years. The 10/11 version will have a hammer available.
Fusion-The most head-heavy slowest swing of the bunch. Good if you're clearing surface ice and needing to bash stuff off.
Dude! If you're climbing WI6-7 with Aztars you are a climbing GOD. Any of the mentioned tools are orders of magnitude better and EASIER to climb with than the Aztars. Get dialed in on the Nomics and you'll be leqding WI 9 in no time. Seriously, you'll learn to swing whatever you got and all of these tools are in use by really good climbers. But, never being one to pass up a chance to pontificate, here are my thoughts>
Cobra-Would be my top choice from BD. It's a light quick swing and is liked by ice technicians. They seemed to have figured out the carbon fiber manufacturing and I've not heard of any problems with them.
Nomic-Top of the line tool from anyone and would be what I would buy if I were buying today. Swings perfectly, sticks like glue and you can get them out of the ice. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complaing about them. Again, they prefer a light, quick and accurate swing. People complain about not being able to add a hammer head, but I'll but I don't think I've had to swing a hammer in 15 years. The 10/11 version will have a hammer available.
Fusion-The most head-heavy slowest swing of the bunch. Good if you're clearing surface ice and needing to bash stuff off.
Ill tell ya, Aztars on a W6 or so sucks, I relly do strugle up the route. Thats why Iam looking at more agressive tools. They are my limitation right now. Iam thinking Nomics are going to be my choice. From every thing I have read Nomics on steep ice are really good.
Really, if you are climbing WI 7 on Aztars, they should be giving you tools.....How many people out there are climbing WI 7 on leashed tools??
How many people are climbing WI 7 period? The grade was only theoretical until recently (or so I thought).
I have the Nomics, and tend to agree with the above postings. I absolutely love them, except on lower angled ice. Anything 3+ and greater and they are amazing.
I really like the light feel of the BD Cobras. I was worried that in bitter cold conditions they light weight tool may not penetrate nearly as well. I was way wrong on that point.
Are you leading or TRing 6's and 7's? I just cannot imagine anyone leading that difficulty with leashes. Any of the tools posted above should be a significant upgrade for you. If you find a killer deal, go for it, or try to make it to a climbing fest and demo them all. Best way to go IMO.
I'm with you Kaizen. Personally, I have a feeling the OP is a bit confused about grades. There are only a handful of WI7 routes in the entire world, and most are unrepeated.
Anyone who climbs WI5 or WI6 simply wouldn't be asking this question, I just don't see it as feasible.
I'm with you Kaizen. Personally, I have a feeling the OP is a bit confused about grades. There are only a handful of WI7 routes in the entire world, and most are unrepeated.
Anyone who climbs WI5 or WI6 simply wouldn't be asking this question, I just don't see it as feasible.
OP - You climb routes that look like this? [image]http://blog.firstascent.com/wp-content/gallery/first-ascent-guides_ice_climb_in_krokan_norway_02_17_10/first-ascent-guides-ice-climb-in-lipton-norway2.jpg[/image]
Until you make a desperate swing and plant 'em four teeth deep. Then have fun cleaning 'em.
True, but BD's picks are even worse. Cleaning BD picks takes more energy than planting them.
Haven't climbed on BD picks in a couple years... I'll take your word for it.
I think it is more the pick angle than the picks. I don't have issues with BD picks, but my tools have a pretty steep pick angle. It doesn't hurt to tune them a little too.
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