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flynnypek
Dec 10, 2002, 10:28 PM
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I just love outdoor rock-climbing. I moved to Jalisco (Mexico) and barely re-started to do some rock-climbing. To my surprise I found out there are rattle snakes and coralillos (I don't know the name in english) in the area. Not only that, but also found that there are some pretty big snakes (most of them not poissonous). I bought a venom sucker, and read some about snakes afterwards.
It seems like there is not any type of "one-fits all" shot to fight against the venom. Does anybody have any idea besides leaving the place calmly when you find one of those animals?
Regards
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flamer
Dec 10, 2002, 10:36 PM
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Rattlesnakes are all over the American west! I have a good friend who got bitten by one while bouldering (in eastern Washington. He apparently reached up and grabbed the top of the boulder and it bit him on the finger. He didn't have any insurance and the treatment is extremely expensive, fortunately he was a nurse at a local hospital and the doctors hooked him up. Still cost a pretty penny though and the doc's said he's lucky to have his finger!
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wv5ten
Dec 11, 2002, 5:05 AM
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back away calmly is the best way to go. as well as knowing the closest hospital, and how to distinguish what kind of snake it is. (the hospital will want to know if you are bitten)
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col_sanderz
Dec 11, 2002, 5:21 AM
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Belive it or not, Ive encountered quite a few rattlers myself in Wisconsin. I think it was late July at Petenwell Bluffs and I saw one of these buggers comin at me from my 3 while belaying. I told my climber to chill out for a sec, escaped my belay, headed for cover and waited him out. 10 mins later he just up and left. Scared the piss outa me but my partner thought it was funny as hell
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flash5twelve
Dec 11, 2002, 6:07 AM
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Boulder-hopping my way up to the base of the Lost Horse Wall in Joshua Tree a few years ago, I pulled up find myself face to face with a Red Diamondback. Like I was being pulled from behind, I flew backwards with a yell:
"rrRRRATTLESNAKE!"
My brother just laughed. Once I calmed myself down a little, we checked it out (from a safe distance.)
I've seen rattlesnakes in the wild a dozen times or so. I've never had one strike at me, although a few given a warning rattle. I've heard that the majority of bites are young males in their teens and early twenties -- they are usually bitten on their hands. Read that as they were messing with them! If you leave them alone, and don't mistakenly step on one or stick you hand under a bush where one is hiding, you should be okay. Rattlesnakes are amazing creatures; don't mess with them, and they won't mess with you.
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roach
Dec 11, 2002, 8:10 AM
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Before I got into climbing, I was into white-water rafting. In '96, I spent 15 days on the colorado river through the grand canyon (amazing trip - if you ever want to see the grand canyon, this is the way to do it).
One night, while taking a walk to the facilities... I stepped on one of the native scaled inhabitants.
Luckily, he ran one way, I ran the other (after screaming like a...).
Rattlesnakes are generally non-aggresive to things they can't eat. They rattle at you to tell you "back off jack". Calmly moving away will generally get you free and clear.
(Side note - you should see the disclaimer you have to sign to do one of these trips. It's 3 pages long, desribes every possible way you could die or get maimed (Rockslide, rapids, hypothermia, big horn sheep, flash floods, etc), and says it's not their fault. My favorite was the tip on mountain lions - "Do not run. Act big and scary. Throw rocks")
- Brian Roach
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galt
Dec 11, 2002, 9:20 AM
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Rattle Snakes are great! Honestly, you have to respect them as amazing creatures. I'd say you've done just about everything you could by getting a Sawyer Extractor ("Venom Sucker") and simply don't piss them off! If you see one back away and make sure you aren't walking into another (although this is MUCH more common with Water Moccasins). Whatever you DO NOT KILL IT unless you have to. (I don't think you would, but little eyes may be reading this.)
If you are a healthy adult then a rattlesnake invenomization (the snake doesn't always inject venom when it bites you, although you should treat all bites as an invenomization) will put a hurting on you, but you'll be fine. You'll probably want to see a Dr. (if nothing else then to prevent infection), but you'll probably be climbing within the month. Just a thought.
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tanman1337
Dec 12, 2002, 4:36 AM
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I have had two encounter with rattlesnakes. Neither were pleasant and one of the times he was right under me. Not fun little creatures.
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nbrown
Dec 12, 2002, 4:45 AM
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One time I was hiking through the local boulderfield and almost stepped on one. I got one of those venom suckers after that.
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totigers
Dec 12, 2002, 5:18 AM
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Then again, it makes for a great little meal. Yumm!!!
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flying_dutchman
Dec 12, 2002, 5:54 AM
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the worst thing about rattle snakes is that the blend in so well. I was at skaha once and walked right over one, didn't even know it was there sleeping untill my friend practically stepped on it following me on the trail. It was the funniest thing ever; he flew 5 feet one way and the snake shot 5 feet the other way. Afterwards, i got close to it and got some close photos of the snake all curled up from like 4 or 5 feet away.
Gotta remember, they dont prey on people, infact they usually try to avoid people and only bite in self defence so just dont do anything to piss em off and u should be fine. stepping on them will probably piss em off.
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krustyklimber
Dec 12, 2002, 6:08 AM
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Rattle snakes are great... they taste like chicken...
Snakes should not be a problem for most climbers (the guy who got bitten must've been the smoothest quietest climber around). An easy way to not see any snakes is to wear a heavy pair of shoes or boots, and walk loudly... a walking stick helps too, you tap it on the ground and the snakes feel you coming down the trail (snakes have better "feeling" than hearing), if you encounter a snake stamp your foot on the ground and it will leave (usually), if not you can help it along (only if you cannot pass without doing so) with your stick, but be careful about handling the stick after it has been bitten by a snake. Snakes on ledges will present special problems, though it is difficult to tell when, it is frequently on the same crags year after year, and will be noted in the guidebook.
Jeff
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cruzinsouthoc
Dec 12, 2002, 6:23 AM
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Those lil' wiggly things are scary creatures...I've worked in the Angeles forest as a volunteer for a long time and have ran into dozens of them... Gettin' an extractor is about all you can do..learn to use it and know how to get to the nearest hospital. They'll avoid you at all costs though..so just give'em their space.
In all honesty, they inject venom to paralyze their prey, you're too big to eat, so they don't really bother. Sometimes they don't inject anything at all...like bees need their stingers, they need venom to survive. BUT, the young ones don't always know better, so sometimes they think they can eat you (why? I dunno) and will inject everything they got... They'll die afterwards..so doesn't do them much good.
All of the forest rangers I've talked to say that they've never known of a healthy adult dyinig from a rattlesnake bite... The Mojave Rattler (found in J-Tree) supposedly has a more potent venom...dunno what more it does, but just FYI I guess..they are more aggressive and are quicker though.
If you MUST kill'em, make sure you take off the head...it can still strike for a long time...we freaked a new guy out one time cuz we had to kill one and told him to poke it with a stick an hour later...the head was half gone (thanks to a range officer's .45) but it still lunged at him...you shoulda seen him jump...what a tough cop he was - almost pee'd his pants! hehe By the way...their striking radius is about half their body length. Give'em their space and they'll slither away the first chance they get.
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texastechclimber
Dec 12, 2002, 7:06 AM
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I have taken many wilderness survival courses and learned an interesting fact that you are not suppose to have someone suck the poison out with their mouth. TV portrays this as a good way for treating a snake bite but this technique will more than likely send both of you to the hopital. Your best bet for safety would be to buy a venom extractor. I've heard they work really well for removing ticks and things like that also.
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flash5twelve
Dec 12, 2002, 7:06 AM
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Here is the current medical advice on rattlesnakes bites:
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic540.htm
To skip down to the pre-hospital treatment, go here: http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic540.htm#section~treatment
Some common myths about treating snakebites:
-Do not cut the snake bite.
-Do not apply ice.
-Do not attempt to suck the venom out with your mouth.
-Do not use electric shock treatment.
-Do not administer alcohol or drugs.
BTW, the venom of the Mojave Rattlesnake is a combination hemotoxin and neurotoxin, that is, it attacks your tissue and your nervous system. Most other rattlesnakes have only a neurotoxin. You can read about it here:http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic541.htm
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therelic
Dec 12, 2002, 8:01 AM
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First of all I am not a snake expert but recreationally and in EMS I have handled a lot of snakes over the years including the snakes spoken about in this thread. To comment on some of the things that have been said so far I agree that leaving them alone and not killing them is usually the best course of action.
As for the rattlesnakes mentioned the Red Diamond Rattlesnake is in decline and if you see one the biologists would like to know about it. There is a good possibility of finding a RDR at J-T. The snake is also generally considered to be one of the more docile rattlesnakes.
The Mojave Rattlesnake is usually a much more aggressive and toxic snake. The RDR has venom that is mostly hemotoxic; it destroys cells, blood, etc, approx. 100mg is considered lethal. The MR venom is considered to be more neurotoxic and a much smaller amount, 10-15mg, is all that is required to put your climbing days far behind you. The emedicine.com site already mentioned has lots of information on these guys and you might find this site interesting. http://www.amnh.org/naturalhistory/features/0700_feature.html
It’s my understanding the Sawyer Venom Extractor is of very limited usefulness. Also the old cut and suck method can do more damage than the venom usually does. All the medical experts I have talked to say anti-venom ASAP is the best treatment if you really need treatment.
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: therelic on 2002-12-12 06:47 ]
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zorg
Dec 12, 2002, 8:26 AM
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What do you mean, when you HAVE to kill them? And we HAD to kill a rattle snake once? Just curious.
Jasja
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passthepitonspete
Dec 12, 2002, 8:46 AM
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What's the big deal?
Pick him up, and move him somewhere safe.
Sheesh.
Note that the photo is also a link.
[HINT]
[Clever trick, eh? I thought of that one the other night whilst driving on the highway]
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machiavellian
Dec 12, 2002, 11:31 AM
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Rattlesnakes are quite interesting little creatures. Personally I have been taught to handle most forms of snake and by the age of 11 I had my own pet rattlesnake that I found, caught and kept for three weeks. I think if treated correctly any type of snake can be handled or removed from an area without harm coming to the person or snake. Just make sure before you try to handle one you have the right training And if possible don’t handle the snake in the first place (unless you are trained and feel fully alert).
Just my $0.02
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duracellbunny
Dec 12, 2002, 12:52 PM
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I won't be so brave to pick the rattlesnake up.........
Climb safe and hard....
Becarful with rattlesnakes
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krustyklimber
Dec 12, 2002, 3:15 PM
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Great job on the links guys!
Thanks!
Pete, that one's too small to eat!
Jeff
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quickclips
Dec 12, 2002, 4:10 PM
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I came about 2 feet from steping on one at Devil's Lake in WI. I heard the rattle, looked down and there it was coiled up right next to my foot. I just backed off slowly and took a few pictures, and warned my friends behind me. The thing followed me for about 15 feet then went on its way. I'll try and post the pictures later when I get home, they turned out pretty good for a guy who didn't want to take his eyes off it.
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flynnypek
Dec 12, 2002, 4:16 PM
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Hello again to everybody. Thank you for all the comments I've been receiving.... what does HAVE to kill mean?
I don't think I even want to get that close!
On the other hand... I think I rather stick to the chicken, rather than eating a snake that tastes like chicken
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shortfatoldguy
Dec 12, 2002, 4:32 PM
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One of two I saw on an hour's walk along the base of El Cap:
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bandycoot
Dec 12, 2002, 4:34 PM
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I've stepped over or near a few rattlesnakes in my day. They are well camoflauged and I'm partly color blind so I miss em. I've been in striking distance, but never been hit. I've seen quite a few rattlers (over ten) and for some reason they never rattle (even the one coiled that I almost stepped on) so keep your eyes open. If they are a constant problem, then make sure you are with someone who can go get help if you are bitten. Two interesting facts:
The guy walking second gets hit because the first guy pisses it off, and then the second guy walks past so ALWAYS OFFER TO WALK FIRST and tell them that you're willing to take the risk (most people don't know this fact).
The reason you can't take the anti-venom with you is that it is a protein that has a short lifetime outside the body. Where they get the anti-venom (and why it is probably so expensive) is from Nevada. There is a bunch of horses there that they keep pumped with a small amount of venom so that their bodies are constantly creating the anti-venom. when anyone is bitten, they have to have the anti-venom flown out. I think that the antivenom comes from the horses blood (don't know the exact details).
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