Its all fun and games until you are exhausted in your tent TRYING to fall asleep...and you keep hearing: "Hey Dude, do you want another BEEEEEEER?" "Bwahahahaha. Am I bro? Beer me that BEEEEER. After the way I sent today I deserve a fountain of BEER." "mumble mumble TITS." "mumble mumble BRO!" Its so annoying.

Its all fun and games until you are exhausted in your tent TRYING to fall asleep...and you keep hearing: "Hey Dude, do you want another BEEEEEEER?" "Bwahahahaha. Am I bro? Beer me that BEEEEER. After the way I sent today I deserve a fountain of BEER." "mumble mumble TITS." "mumble mumble BRO!" Its so annoying.

Sleep out in the field, then you don't have to deal with any of that.

hyhuu said "But if you climb 5.14s, I believe the Red has more to offer."

A common misconception. I just picked up the RRG gorge guide and the NRG guide. RRG has 8, NRG has 7....well, I guess you're right by a little.

5.13a and harder?
RRG-67
NRG-123

I find it intriguing that the Red has this reputation for hard sport climbing. Top athletes come from all over the world to climb at the red and they shun the New. Why?

The reality is that both areas are world class. The mystery is why on a beautiful weekend the parking lot at Miguel's is overflowing and 1000's of people are climbing at the Red while I'm out here alone at Endless Wall. Seems like the climber population would spread out a bit. Maybe people do climb for the numbers....

hyhuu said "But if you climb 5.14s, I believe the Red has more to offer."

A common misconception. I just picked up the RRG gorge guide and the NRG guide. RRG has 8, NRG has 7....well, I guess you're right by a little.

5.13a and harder?
RRG-67
NRG-123

I find it intriguing that the Red has this reputation for hard sport climbing. Top athletes come from all over the world to climb at the red and they shun the New. Why?

The reality is that both areas are world class. The mystery is why on a beautiful weekend the parking lot at Miguel's is overflowing and 1000's of people are climbing at the Red while I'm out here alone at Endless Wall. Seems like the climber population would spread out a bit. Maybe people do climb for the numbers....

hyhuu said "But if you climb 5.14s, I believe the Red has more to offer."

A common misconception. I just picked up the RRG gorge guide and the NRG guide. RRG has 8, NRG has 7....well, I guess you're right by a little.

5.13a and harder?
RRG-67
NRG-123

I find it intriguing that the Red has this reputation for hard sport climbing. Top athletes come from all over the world to climb at the red and they shun the New. Why?

The reality is that both areas are world class. The mystery is why on a beautiful weekend the parking lot at Miguel's is overflowing and 1000's of people are climbing at the Red while I'm out here alone at Endless Wall. Seems like the climber population would spread out a bit. Maybe people do climb for the numbers....

So which part of the 5.14s wasn't clear to you?

After reading this repeatedly, I still have no idea what you are asking. Could you rephrase that?

I was simply trying to point out that 'the image' of the Red is that there are massive caves around every corner with 5.14's everywhere and the 'the image' of the New is that it's a bunch of slabs.

I thought that by pointing out that there was a difference of just one route between the two...
I stand corrected though as someone else has pointed out that after recent development there are 11 at the Red.

Still 7 vs. 11 is not that much of a difference. You'd think that some strong climbers would visit the New to sample the 7 that are here. I also thought it would shock some people to find out that there are twice as many 5.13's here....which I qualify as "hard" routes.

And yeah, I agree with the above post. Although I'm curious as to why the Red sees far more traffic than the New I do like it this way. It's what drew me to the New in the first place. Lots of solitude, no lines ever, friendly small community.

But hey, I live here and love it and it's my favorite climbing area in the world. That said I take a trip to the Red every chance I get!

Is the Red farther from Georgia than the New?

Yes.

I have never climbed at the New because of how far away it is compared to the Red

Which is it? It take twice as long for me to get to the Red from NC than it does to get to NRG.

I hear what you're saying. But the nice thing about climbing 5.14 is that every route beneath that is climbable! So many options. Imagine what it would be like to walk the cliff and be able to climb any route you wanted.

And i would have to say that for 5.14 climbers, 5.13 is not just a warm up. They are still quite challenging. Especially 5.13d!

I will agree that if you onsight 5.14 the New would get boring in about a week. But there are a handful of guys capable of that. Everyone else could have months of fun climbing all the challenging 5.12 and 5.13 routes this area offers.

For example, Chris Lindner is one 'rock star' that has taken a few visits. While he was here he established one new 5.14 and spent the rest of the time climbing 5.13. He fell off quite a few of them.

Chris Sharma visited last year. He attempted a 5.14 project, didn't send it (It's still a project) and spent the rest of the time climbing 5.13. One particular 5.13d he fell off in a few places and didn't send. We are talking about Chris Sharma here! Likely the strongest climber in the world right now. So yeah, I would say it's a misconception to say that 5.13's are warmups for 5.14 climbers.

I am far from a world class climber but I have climbed 5.14. It sucks for me. It takes weeks of effort. I spend most of my time climbing obscure 5.11 to 5.13 routes along the miles of cliff here. It's awesome!

That's what I try to get across to people. There is sooo much climbing here and just because the grade might be 5.12b doesn't mean that Dani Andrada can't fall off it. Seriously, some of the routes here are incredibly challenging no matter who you are.

Then of course are all the projects. I would say there are about 20 already bolted projects that are hard, some are really hard.

Then back to the Red. Look at Sharma again, he visited, did a few 5.14's including what was then the hardest route, Lucifer. Then he set about to find new lines. He bolted that impossible looking cave at Drive-by. He didn't 'climb out' the Red in just a few days but I bet he would get tired of the established routes there far faster than he would at the New. If he were forced to pick a place.
Of course, he can pick a place and he has....Spain.

The funny thing about my stance on this 'devil's advocate' debate is not that the New is better than the Red. It's that they are equally amazing. Again, what intrigues me is why 90% (made up statistic) of climbers visit the Red over the New. Hmmm.

I think part of it (here comes the shit talk..) is that the climbing is hard here. It crushes the ego. When I go to the Red I rarely fall off 5.12 and it makes me so happy. When I go to Endless Wall I regularly fall off 5.11. I can think of three 5.10d's at the New that are harder than any 5.12d at the Red. Talk about an ego crush. Mr. bad ass 5.13 guy getting destroyed on 5.10. It scares people away. There I said it.
My belief is that despite people telling themselves that they don't climb for numbers, they do. Even if subconciously. No one can argue that it feels good to progress, to redpoint your hardest graded route. There is a far greater chance of that happening at the Red and I think that's why the traffic is there.

Another reason is that climbing at the Red is just more fun. It's social, which people like. You get to hang out at crowded crags and talk to people. I think we all like this more than we admit. Being alone in the woods with your partner is lame sometimes.

The climbing is steep and endurance oriented, i.e. fun. Technical New River faces are not fun for many people. It takes too much thinking and skin loss, and finger pain, and again, ego crush. Just my thoughts. Of course they are probably wrong....

I gotcha. Learn something new everyday.