I may have figured out the answer to my own question. When I am aiding I always have my fifi hook (biner actually) clipped straight into the cam / nut and I am either top stepping or in the third step (on a regular aider). So when I shift my weight over onto the high piece, I disconnect the lower aider before I disconnect my fifi hook that way if the piece blows I only fall a few inches on the hook instead of three feet onto the daisy chain. But that requires hooking into the cam versus the biner attached to the daisy and aider which is a bit more work.

Ignore everything in the above posts. They don't know what they're talking about. Here's the straight dope.

If you suspect your newly placed piece is dicey, then clip the rope through the piece you're standing on and unclip your daisy from the aider. Thus, if you stand up on the new piece and it blows, then the rope - not your daisy - will catch you. And because you clipped the rope through the previous piece, your aiders are secured. Just don't forget to grab your aiders as you continue up.

This sequence is a hassle because it adds an extra step - i.e. you have to unclip the daisy first, and then retrieve your aider second. I never use it unless I think my new piece is dicey.

How exactly do you unclip your daisy while top stepping?

No. You've got to clip the rope and remove your daisy before you move to the new piece. Otherwise, if the new piece blows, then you'll fall on your daisy.

No, but it provided good evidence that very high forces can be generated in a short fall onto a very-low-stretch sling.

But my point was only that graniteboy was very wrong: a short FF2 onto low-stretch tethers can generate much higher forces than a long FF2 onto a dynamic climbing rope.

Anyway, the issue isn't just the risk that you might break a daisy chain (you are, after all, still attached to a rope). Even if the daisy will hold, you might want to spare your kidneys the special feeling of falling onto one.

You just made that up. Graniteboy never said anything of the sort. What he said was that a climber falling three feet onto a daisy isn't going to generate 24 kN. Those test results you linked don't come anywhere close to refuting that.

Due to the fact that the falling object (climber) is only falling maybe a meter, taking much less than a second to do so, (let's say about a quarter of a second as a rough guess, although we could get all fancy and calculate it) there is no way in hell that 24KN can be developed in this scenario, as you stated above someplace. Let's put our thinking caps on. 24 KN is what you can generate when you're flying 30 or 40 feet, and then coming to an abrupt stop in a FF2 fall.

So, this is the GB post I was criticizing, and which you are now defending:


To be clear: This is the argument you want to keep siding with? He thinks that 24KN could be developed in a FF2 fall onto dynamic climbing rope, but not onto a static tether. Whether it is 24KN or only 15KN once you factor in a squishy body is beside the point; the problem is that he was asserting that the length of the fall is the only relevant variable.

Yes, I agree with him that a climber taking a three foot daisy fall will not generate 24 kN.

Where does he mention a dynamic rope? He doesn't. You're reading that into it.

Length of fall does matter in this case because in addition to the low-stretch sling you have a fixed higher-stretch component in the system as well. If you took a 30 foot FF2 onto static webbing it would be quite different than a two inch FF2, don't you think?

it is obvious that you are just trolling at this point.

Every post is a troll, dumbass.

I wish I could really claim that I was trolling since it seems I got a bite from a rather large, errr, FISH. A rare breaching of The Russelford would surely be a prize for a dedicated troll, would it not?


(troll)
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24kN, huh? <- (troll)

^
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(troll)

Ignore everything in the above posts. They don't know what they're talking about. Here's the straight dope.

If you suspect your newly placed piece is dicey, then clip the rope through the piece you're standing on and unclip your daisy from the aider. Thus, if you stand up on the new piece and it blows, then the rope - not your daisy - will catch you. And because you clipped the rope through the previous piece, your aiders are secured. Just don't forget to grab your aiders as you continue up.

This sequence is a hassle because it adds an extra step - i.e. you have to unclip the daisy first, and then retrieve your aider second. I never use it unless I think my new piece is dicey.