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sydranark
Apr 29, 2010, 8:38 PM
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I haven't been rock climbing in a while so I'm a bit rusty on a few things. Correct me if i'm wrong:
- The person climbing needs a figure 8 knot; the person belaying does not.
- The 1st figure 8 knot should be tied before passing the rope through the 2 (horizontal) loops in the harness... from the bottom loop through and over the top loop and then fed back in to the figure 8 to make it a double.
- Before Belaying: If using an ATC, the rope needs to be fed in to the slot of the ATC on the side of the hand that is holding the open end of the rope. The loop passed through the ATC must also pass through the carabiner.
- While Belaying - the bottom hand holding the open end of the rope does that up-yank-down-hold motion and the other hand lightly grips the rope until the other hand is down and locked in place.
I hope I got everything right; if I didn't, please correct me. Thanks =)
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shoo
Apr 29, 2010, 8:57 PM
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You need to go seek live instruction if you are not sure about any of this. It is impossible to judge whether you know enough to safely climb or belay based on a list like this alone.
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acorneau
Apr 29, 2010, 9:08 PM
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sydranark wrote: I haven't been rock climbing in a while so I'm a bit rusty on a few things. Correct me if i'm wrong:
(Oh boy...) Sure, let's see what you've got.
In reply to: - The person climbing needs a figure 8 knot; the person belaying does not.
Yes, the climber ties in, most commonly with a figure-8 (or more correctly known as a figure-8 follow-through or a figure-8 retrace).
The belayer might tie in if they will be seconding (climbing up after the leader) or if the belay stance requires some anchoring for the belayer (like being pulled off a ledge or into a large hole).
In reply to: - The 1st figure 8 knot should be tied before passing the rope through the 2 (horizontal) loops in the harness... from the bottom loop through and over the top loop and then fed back in to the figure 8 to make it a double.
http://animatedknots.com/...ww.animatedknots.com
In reply to: - Before Belaying: If using an ATC, the rope needs to be fed in to the slot of the ATC on the side of the hand that is holding the open end of the rope. The loop passed through the ATC must also pass through the carabiner.
Either slot will work just fine but my guess is most people probably use the one closer to their brake hand. Yes, the rope goes through the biner.
In reply to: - While Belaying - the bottom hand holding the open end of the rope does that up-yank-down-hold motion and the other hand lightly grips the rope until the other hand is down and locked in place.
Sound's like you're describing the "BUS" method of belaying. If you are then you're on the right track. (Look up "BUS method" for more info.)
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Rudmin
Apr 29, 2010, 10:03 PM
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shoo wrote: You need to go seek live instruction if you are not sure about any of this. It is impossible to judge whether you know enough to safely climb or belay based on a list like this alone.
It is always possible to judge when you are on the internet.
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bill413
Apr 29, 2010, 11:12 PM
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Rudmin wrote: It is always possible to judge when you are on the internet.
Rudmin's law.
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bill413
Apr 29, 2010, 11:13 PM
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What acorneu said.
I'll add -
sydranark wrote: - The person climbing needs a figure 8 knot; the person belaying does not.
also, when you aren't sure that the rope is twice as long as the climb (and you're top roping), some sort of knot on the belayer's side is an excellent idea.
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lena_chita
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Apr 29, 2010, 11:39 PM
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sydranark wrote: I haven't been rock climbing in a while so I'm a bit rusty on a few things. Correct me if i'm wrong: - The person climbing needs a figure 8 knot; the person belaying does not. - The 1st figure 8 knot should be tied before passing the rope through the 2 (horizontal) loops in the harness... from the bottom loop through and over the top loop and then fed back in to the figure 8 to make it a double. - Before Belaying: If using an ATC, the rope needs to be fed in to the slot of the ATC on the side of the hand that is holding the open end of the rope. The loop passed through the ATC must also pass through the carabiner. - While Belaying - the bottom hand holding the open end of the rope does that up-yank-down-hold motion and the other hand lightly grips the rope until the other hand is down and locked in place. I hope I got everything right; if I didn't, please correct me. Thanks =)
if you are asking these questions for real, then my advice to you is to seek qualified instruction, instead of just asking on the internet.
And in general, once you do get a refresher, try to think in terms of WHY you need something, or do something, instead of thinking in rigid terms like "the climber needs figure 8, the belayer doesn't".
The answer to that question, and every other question of yours, is obvious if you think about WHY someone needs this, or that. What is the purpose of the figure 8 knot? What would happen if a belayer ties figure 8 knot in the rope and puts that rope through the ATC? What if you try to tie a figure 8 knot after you put the rope through your tie-in points? What if you put the rope through your ATC but do not clip it with the 'biner? What if you put the rope backwards? Go ahead, try it, and see for yourself why you do things that way, instead of trying to just memorize the sequence.
I've seen some beginners try to memorize things, like cleaning the anchors, as a step-by-step sequence. Then they get there, and try to remember the exact sequence instead of thinking... and as soon as they encounter something unexpected, they panic.
When I teach this, I try to emphasize that the main thing is to THINK about what you are doing and why, and before you clip, tie, untie or unclip anything, double-check and ask yourself: what is holding me to the rock? what is holding the rope up here? and what would hold me and the rope after I do this step?
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sydranark
Apr 30, 2010, 1:29 AM
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lena_chita wrote: if you are asking these questions for real, then my advice to you is to seek qualified instruction, instead of just asking on the internet. And in general, once you do get a refresher, try to think in terms of WHY you need something, or do something, instead of thinking in rigid terms like "the climber needs figure 8, the belayer doesn't". The answer to that question, and every other question of yours, is obvious if you think about WHY someone needs this, or that. What is the purpose of the figure 8 knot? What would happen if a belayer ties figure 8 knot in the rope and puts that rope through the ATC? What if you try to tie a figure 8 knot after you put the rope through your tie-in points? What if you put the rope through your ATC but do not clip it with the 'biner? What if you put the rope backwards? Go ahead, try it, and see for yourself why you do things that way, instead of trying to just memorize the sequence. I've seen some beginners try to memorize things, like cleaning the anchors, as a step-by-step sequence. Then they get there, and try to remember the exact sequence instead of thinking... and as soon as they encounter something unexpected, they panic. When I teach this, I try to emphasize that the main thing is to THINK about what you are doing and why, and before you clip, tie, untie or unclip anything, double-check and ask yourself: what is holding me to the rock? what is holding the rope up here? and what would hold me and the rope after I do this step?
haha of course i was asking those questions for real. I'm not the type to post random questions on various forums for the heck of it... and I figured this forum would be a good place to get "qualified" answers from kind people like you that actualy teach how to climb.
i understand that there is always science/reasoning behind everything. however; I have climbed before and I merely needed a refresher of to-do's/not-to-do's.
to me, as long as I know what to do, I'll be fine. I'm not going to waste time pondering why unless I were to teach someone else... in which case, all of what you said may be useful to have at hand.
To all of you that did take my questions seriously:
Thank you, you all were very helpful =)
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ClimbClimb
Apr 30, 2010, 3:35 AM
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lena_chita wrote: When I teach this, I try to emphasize that the main thing is to THINK about what you are doing and why, and before you clip, tie, untie or unclip anything, double-check and ask yourself: what is holding me to the rock? what is holding the rope up here? and what would hold me and the rope after I do this step?
I don't know, this is kinda unrelated to the OP's questions, but I think thinking in situations like this is a little over-rated... It is fine for someone who is experienced and sensible, but it is *so* easy for a beginner to make a number of both factual and logical errors when thinking through basic safety procedures. What seems obvious as a way to think about a set of technical problems to the teacher is not always obvious to the student.
To the OP - good thing you checked, agree with what others said, but probably still best for you to add to this Internet-found knowledge by going out with a guide, a class or a person known to be a recently-experienced and safe climber.
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marc801
Apr 30, 2010, 5:24 AM
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ClimbClimb wrote: lena_chita wrote: When I teach this, I try to emphasize that the main thing is to THINK about what you are doing and why, and before you clip, tie, untie or unclip anything, double-check and ask yourself: what is holding me to the rock? what is holding the rope up here? and what would hold me and the rope after I do this step? I don't know, this is kinda unrelated to the OP's questions, but I think thinking in situations like this is a little over-rated... It is fine for someone who is experienced and sensible, but it is *so* easy for a beginner to make a number of both factual and logical errors when thinking through basic safety procedures. What seems obvious as a way to think about a set of technical problems to the teacher is not always obvious to the student.
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jbro_135
Apr 30, 2010, 5:37 AM
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sydranark wrote: lena_chita wrote: if you are asking these questions for real, then my advice to you is to seek qualified instruction, instead of just asking on the internet. And in general, once you do get a refresher, try to think in terms of WHY you need something, or do something, instead of thinking in rigid terms like "the climber needs figure 8, the belayer doesn't". The answer to that question, and every other question of yours, is obvious if you think about WHY someone needs this, or that. What is the purpose of the figure 8 knot? What would happen if a belayer ties figure 8 knot in the rope and puts that rope through the ATC? What if you try to tie a figure 8 knot after you put the rope through your tie-in points? What if you put the rope through your ATC but do not clip it with the 'biner? What if you put the rope backwards? Go ahead, try it, and see for yourself why you do things that way, instead of trying to just memorize the sequence. I've seen some beginners try to memorize things, like cleaning the anchors, as a step-by-step sequence. Then they get there, and try to remember the exact sequence instead of thinking... and as soon as they encounter something unexpected, they panic. When I teach this, I try to emphasize that the main thing is to THINK about what you are doing and why, and before you clip, tie, untie or unclip anything, double-check and ask yourself: what is holding me to the rock? what is holding the rope up here? and what would hold me and the rope after I do this step? haha of course i was asking those questions for real. I'm not the type to post random questions on various forums for the heck of it... and I figured this forum would be a good place to get "qualified" answers from kind people like you that actualy teach how to climb. i understand that there is always science/reasoning behind everything. however; I have climbed before and I merely needed a refresher of to-do's/not-to-do's. to me, as long as I know what to do, I'll be fine. I'm not going to waste time pondering why unless I were to teach someone else... in which case, all of what you said may be useful to have at hand. To all of you that did take my questions seriously: Thank you, you all were very helpful =)
haha, lena chita doesn't teach people to climb, lol thank god
those poor students would be so sick of listening to rants that don't answer the question or anything related to it
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jt512
Apr 30, 2010, 5:47 AM
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shoo wrote: It is impossible to judge whether you know enough to safely climb or belay based on a list like this alone.
It is?
Jay
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lena_chita
Moderator
Apr 30, 2010, 1:38 PM
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marc801 wrote: ClimbClimb wrote: lena_chita wrote: When I teach this, I try to emphasize that the main thing is to THINK about what you are doing and why, and before you clip, tie, untie or unclip anything, double-check and ask yourself: what is holding me to the rock? what is holding the rope up here? and what would hold me and the rope after I do this step? I don't know, this is kinda unrelated to the OP's questions, but I think thinking in situations like this is a little over-rated... It is fine for someone who is experienced and sensible, but it is *so* easy for a beginner to make a number of both factual and logical errors when thinking through basic safety procedures. What seems obvious as a way to think about a set of technical problems to the teacher is not always obvious to the student. I think what lena_chita was getting at was to integrate the rote memorization of steps with understanding why each step is done and in that particular order. It's not a matter of substituting one for the other, but the combination of both.
Thank you, that's exactly what I meant.
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boymeetsrock
Apr 30, 2010, 4:52 PM
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sydranark wrote: to me, as long as I know what to do, I'll be fine. I'm not going to waste time pondering why unless I were to teach someone else... in which case, all of what you said may be useful to have at hand.
To me, it doesn't sound like you know what to do. So you might want to spend some time pondering why so as to teach yourself. Otherwise you might might not be fine.
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ianmeister89
Apr 30, 2010, 6:50 PM
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yea... who forgets how to set up an atc? It's got some obvious diagrams printed on it's side, and in it's enclosed instructions.
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shockabuku
Apr 30, 2010, 7:00 PM
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sydranark wrote: lena_chita wrote: if you are asking these questions for real, then my advice to you is to seek qualified instruction, instead of just asking on the internet. And in general, once you do get a refresher, try to think in terms of WHY you need something, or do something, instead of thinking in rigid terms like "the climber needs figure 8, the belayer doesn't". The answer to that question, and every other question of yours, is obvious if you think about WHY someone needs this, or that. What is the purpose of the figure 8 knot? What would happen if a belayer ties figure 8 knot in the rope and puts that rope through the ATC? What if you try to tie a figure 8 knot after you put the rope through your tie-in points? What if you put the rope through your ATC but do not clip it with the 'biner? What if you put the rope backwards? Go ahead, try it, and see for yourself why you do things that way, instead of trying to just memorize the sequence. I've seen some beginners try to memorize things, like cleaning the anchors, as a step-by-step sequence. Then they get there, and try to remember the exact sequence instead of thinking... and as soon as they encounter something unexpected, they panic. When I teach this, I try to emphasize that the main thing is to THINK about what you are doing and why, and before you clip, tie, untie or unclip anything, double-check and ask yourself: what is holding me to the rock? what is holding the rope up here? and what would hold me and the rope after I do this step? haha of course i was asking those questions for real. I'm not the type to post random questions on various forums for the heck of it... and I figured this forum would be a good place to get "qualified" answers from kind people like you that actualy teach how to climb. i understand that there is always science/reasoning behind everything. however; I have climbed before and I merely needed a refresher of to-do's/not-to-do's. to me, as long as I know what to do, I'll be fine. I'm not going to waste time pondering why unless I were to teach someone else... in which case, all of what you said may be useful to have at hand. To all of you that did take my questions seriously: Thank you, you all were very helpful =)
Are you the kind of person I see blow the second clip and deck? Or that person's belayer who doesn't know where to stand or what the heck is going to happen and gets flattened? Or the person who is toproping and the belayer can't keep up with the climber and neither one knows enough to say "Slow down" or "up rope"? Sounds like it.
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sydranark
Apr 30, 2010, 7:36 PM
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ianmeister89 wrote: yea... who forgets how to set up an atc? It's got some obvious diagrams printed on it's side, and in it's enclosed instructions.
someone who has not gone rock climbing in a while; nor owns his own gear. this original post wasn't even in regard to outdoor climbing. it was for indoor climbing. i rent the gear.
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sydranark
Apr 30, 2010, 7:43 PM
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shockabuku wrote: Are you the kind of person I see blow the second clip and deck? Or that person's belayer who doesn't know where to stand or what the heck is going to happen and gets flattened? Or the person who is toproping and the belayer can't keep up with the climber and neither one knows enough to say "Slow down" or "up rope"? Sounds like it.
haha i've had no complaints before; nor have i fallen while belaying =/... but thanks for your concern
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boymeetsrock
Apr 30, 2010, 7:46 PM
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You might be best served by a refresher course at the gym you're planning on going to. Would give you a chance to use the actual set up you will be using when you climb.
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Basta916
Apr 30, 2010, 8:58 PM
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sydranark wrote: haha of course i was asking those questions for real. I'm not the type to post random questions on various forums for the heck of it... and I figured this forum would be a good place to get "qualified" answers from kind people like you that actualy teach how to climb.
Mr. Darwin will take care of you.
(This post was edited by Basta916 on Apr 30, 2010, 9:01 PM)
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ClimbClimb
May 1, 2010, 12:30 AM
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Basta916 wrote: Mr. Darwin will take care of you.
Look, someone asked, which is much better than being unsure and not asking for fear of appearing foolish or getting made fun of on the internet.
And, seriously, do you want the OP to get hurt or die climbing? Really? WTF?
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Basta916
May 1, 2010, 12:49 AM
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ClimbClimb wrote: Basta916 wrote: Mr. Darwin will take care of you. Look, someone asked, which is much better than being unsure and not asking for fear of appearing foolish or getting made fun of on the internet. And, seriously, do you want the OP to get hurt or die climbing? Really? WTF?
Are you trying to outsource Mr.Darwin's job?
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