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time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up
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cal32


May 16, 2010, 6:59 PM
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time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up
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I've noticed as I've started moving into leading >= 5.10b (outdoors sport and trad) that as the grades go up, it seems like the ability/nerve to just keep climbing through the very poor sections, trusting that if you move up you'll be able to find the missing piece(s) for the subsequent move, before flaming out, becomes a big part of success???

I mean the process... of quickly scoping out next moves as best you can and finding the best hands/feet you can, calling it good enough (before you get too pumped) and trust that upon moving up enough will become available for you to repeat this process yet again, for x number of moves until you get to something decent where you can maybe shake out/clip or whatever.

It may be a dumb question, but moving from the lower grade stuff where you spend most of the time having something quite decent to hold/stand on, to spending a larger portion of the time where you have nothing and further you can't stay there long - definitely requires a change in mentality and tactics.

Previously I used to think it was all about acquiring the skill to be able to climb on nothing so well, that it was effectively near bomber. I of course recognize that's certainly a part, but there does seem to be a good measure of what I mention above, calling what you've got good enough and just keep climbing, repeat.

thanks for your feedback


(This post was edited by cal32 on May 16, 2010, 8:02 PM)


USnavy


May 16, 2010, 7:20 PM
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Re: [cal32] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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cal32 wrote:

moving from the lower grade stuff where you spend most of the time having something quite decent to hold/stand on, to spending a larger portion of the time where you have nothing and further you can't stay there long - definitely requires a change in mentality and tactics.
It sure does. As Rock Warrior’s Way says, "when you’re climbing your climbing, when you’re resting your resting". Once you start moving through a section that doesn’t offer any rests, try to get through it as fast as possible, don’t hang around. When you get to a rest, milk the rest and try to plan out the next moves. Knowing when things are going to get pumpy and being able to move through that section quickly is an important skill for success on the harder grades.


clc


May 16, 2010, 7:59 PM
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Re: [USnavy] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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Whats the question?


cal32


May 16, 2010, 8:10 PM
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thanks for the replies

clc wrote:
Whats the question?

sorry, I edited the post, but my question is basically: That as one moves into the harder grades that spending a fair amount of time climbing on nothing and trusting that holds/feet for subsequent moves (beyond what you can scope out) will make themselves available if you just keep moving up, becomes a quite common state?

thanks


jt512


May 16, 2010, 8:12 PM
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cal32 wrote:
thanks for the replies

clc wrote:
Whats the question?

sorry, I edited the post, but my question is basically: That as one moves into the harder grades that spending a fair amount of time climbing on nothing and trusting that holds/feet for subsequent moves (beyond what you can scope out) will make themselves available if you just keep moving up, becomes a quite common state?

So what's the question?

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on May 16, 2010, 8:13 PM)


neverwalk


May 16, 2010, 8:19 PM
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Re: [clc] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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Well, as you get stronger, the crappier holds seem better.
As you get used to crimping on an edge hold on a 5.10 d, the holds on a 5.10 a will seem bigger, by comparison, and not so hard. The same way that once you get all the beta on a climb wired, it's just not as hard as the very first time you try the moves. Over time, you'll build an "inventory" of moves for specific holds and conditions that work for you, and your body type, and your strengths. Figuring out what your weaknesses are, and fixing them, will make you a better climber. As far as moving on borderline holds, and hoping you get to a better hold "in a move or two" that can work, but it can also get you hurt, if you make a long poorly planned runout on bad gear. Figuring out what is reasonable and what isn't is the difference between "bold" and foolhardy. The more miles you put in, the better you'll get, plain and simple. A safe way to do this is, frankly, on toprope. Climb the really hard stuff with a rope in front of you, not behind you, until you can figure out what you are capable of.


jose32


May 16, 2010, 9:44 PM
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Re: [cal32] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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cal32 wrote:
I've noticed as I've started moving into leading >= 5.10b (outdoors sport and trad) that as the grades go up, it seems like the ability/nerve to just keep climbing through the very poor sections, trusting that if you move up you'll be able to find the missing piece(s) for the subsequent move, before flaming out, becomes a big part of success???

Yeh there is a bit of a mental shift and transition going from the sub 5.10a stuff to it and higher I'd say. As you mention you'll be used to generally having something quite good to be on at all times, to generally having much less.

So long as I feel I'm within my abilities and a fall should be objectively safe, I do similar to what you mention when on poor ground. i.e. suss out the next moves as best I can and focus on continuing to move up to the next pro or rest.

On higher grades no longer can you indefinitely hang out on almost every move, as you can in the introductory grades with huge features. Nor can you expect to have bomber stances each move, 'good enough' and move on describes it well enough.

Make sure you understand about when it should theoretically be okay to fall and when not, and when you are running it out too far. For example I've had a few times where I've gone for a bolt that was placed a bit far, realized I could make it but was going to be massively pumped and couldn't safely clip, so I just took the fall at that point rather than risk a blown clip with an unsafe fall. So keep things like that in mind as you get into the tough grades, don't go too far above your level. Push it patiently a little at a time and think things through.


clc


May 16, 2010, 10:43 PM
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Re: [jose32] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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maybe the better question is "what kind of dope is cal32 smoking?"


acorneau


May 17, 2010, 6:51 AM
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Re: [clc] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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clc wrote:
maybe the better question is "what kind of dope is cal32 smoking?"

Laugh

Actually, I've noticed that people from some nationalities/cultures like to ask questions in the form of a statement. I hear it all the time on the BBC news and it drives me nuts.

I'd bet 5 internets that Cal32 is from such a place. Shocked


bigjonnyc


May 17, 2010, 8:27 AM
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Re: [acorneau] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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As you get stronger your definition of good holds will change, and so looking for the good holds on the moves ahead will become easier, because holds you used to think you couldn't pull on now look good and that really opens up more ways to do each move and reduces the the stress involve in trying to get yourself to keep moving up even though you don't know whats coming ahead, so yeah maybe there's some of whatever you were talking about in there, but mostly you need to climb more and get stronger and maybe work on your technique because just being able to do one arm, one finger pullups doesn't mean you can climb 5.15?


gunkiemike


May 18, 2010, 3:37 PM
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Re: [bigjonnyc] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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bigjonnyc wrote:
As you get stronger your definition of good holds will change, and so looking for the good holds on the moves ahead will become easier, because holds you used to think you couldn't pull on now look good and that really opens up more ways to do each move and reduces the the stress involve in trying to get yourself to keep moving up even though you don't know whats coming ahead, so yeah maybe there's some of whatever you were talking about in there, but mostly you need to climb more and get stronger and maybe work on your technique because just being able to do one arm, one finger pullups doesn't mean you can climb 5.15?

Holy fukkin run-on sentence Batman!

And...what's the question mark for?


desertwanderer81


May 18, 2010, 4:41 PM
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Re: [USnavy] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
cal32 wrote:

moving from the lower grade stuff where you spend most of the time having something quite decent to hold/stand on, to spending a larger portion of the time where you have nothing and further you can't stay there long - definitely requires a change in mentality and tactics.
It sure does. As Rock Warrior’s Way says, "when you’re climbing your climbing, when you’re resting your resting". Once you start moving through a section that doesn’t offer any rests, try to get through it as fast as possible, don’t hang around. When you get to a rest, milk the rest and try to plan out the next moves. Knowing when things are going to get pumpy and being able to move through that section quickly is an important skill for success on the harder grades.

But why does the rock warrior only use one apostrophe per sentence?


sidepull


May 18, 2010, 4:57 PM
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Re: [desertwanderer81] time spent climbing on nothing as grades go up [In reply to]
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desertwanderer81 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
cal32 wrote:

moving from the lower grade stuff where you spend most of the time having something quite decent to hold/stand on, to spending a larger portion of the time where you have nothing and further you can't stay there long - definitely requires a change in mentality and tactics.
It sure does. As Rock Warrior’s Way says, "when you’re climbing your climbing, when you’re resting your resting". Once you start moving through a section that doesn’t offer any rests, try to get through it as fast as possible, don’t hang around. When you get to a rest, milk the rest and try to plan out the next moves. Knowing when things are going to get pumpy and being able to move through that section quickly is an important skill for success on the harder grades.

But why does the rock warrior only use one apostrophe per sentence?

Awesome - in one move you've created hilarity and pissed off climbing's most devout cult. Well done!


karmiclimber


May 19, 2010, 7:26 AM
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sidepull wrote:
desertwanderer81 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
cal32 wrote:

moving from the lower grade stuff where you spend most of the time having something quite decent to hold/stand on, to spending a larger portion of the time where you have nothing and further you can't stay there long - definitely requires a change in mentality and tactics.
It sure does. As Rock Warrior’s Way says, "when you’re climbing your climbing, when you’re resting your resting". Once you start moving through a section that doesn’t offer any rests, try to get through it as fast as possible, don’t hang around. When you get to a rest, milk the rest and try to plan out the next moves. Knowing when things are going to get pumpy and being able to move through that section quickly is an important skill for success on the harder grades.

But why does the rock warrior only use one apostrophe per sentence?

Awesome - in one move you've created hilarity and pissed off climbing's most devout cult. Well done!

LOL. It totally is a cult. I kept reading, hoping the New Age-y crap would end, but no. (Sorry, Arno)


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