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harpo_the_climber
May 27, 2010, 1:21 PM
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My question is about these:
http://www.camp-usa.com/products/carabiners/oval-quick-links-zinc.asp
I have seen them used in rappel anchors, and that makes sense, almost always with second anchor point for the rope.
Can they also be used to back off a sport route? Last week we had to back off a sport climb, and we replaced the quick draw on the last bolt we reached with a quicklink (I think it was the smaller 8mm one) and backed off with that. It saved us from using a locker or quick draw. I did not have a wrench, so I hand tightened the gate. We got down OK, but is this a proper use of a quick link?
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bill413
May 27, 2010, 1:32 PM
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harpo_the_climber wrote: My question is about these: http://www.camp-usa.com/...quick-links-zinc.asp I have seen them used in rappel anchors, and that makes sense, almost always with second anchor point for the rope. Can they also be used to back off a sport route? Last week we had to back off a sport climb, and we replaced the quick draw on the last bolt we reached with a quicklink (I think it was the smaller 8mm one) and backed off with that. It saved us from using a locker or quick draw. I did not have a wrench, so I hand tightened the gate. We got down OK, but is this a proper use of a quick link?
Made clicky.
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rock_fencer
May 27, 2010, 1:40 PM
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It is preferable to leave a booty 'biner instead. The quicklinks rust closed, especially if not stainless and make it very difficult to remove later. Furthermore if you leave one with too fat of a diamtere then clipping the bolt itself with a draw becomes difficult.
T
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mojomonkey
May 27, 2010, 1:42 PM
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harpo_the_climber wrote: My question is about these: http://www.camp-usa.com/products/carabiners/oval-quick-links-zinc.asp I have seen them used in rappel anchors, and that makes sense, almost always with second anchor point for the rope. Can they also be used to back off a sport route? Last week we had to back off a sport climb, and we replaced the quick draw on the last bolt we reached with a quicklink (I think it was the smaller 8mm one) and backed off with that. It saved us from using a locker or quick draw. I did not have a wrench, so I hand tightened the gate. We got down OK, but is this a proper use of a quick link?
Suck it up and bail off a biner. Quick links are annoying to the next climber. They have to fight their draw in the hanger with the link in the way, or clip a quick link of unknown pedigree finger tightened to who knows what degree. Eventually someone else will have to remove your trash, and it would be nicer if it were at least a biner they could add to their own bail reservoir.
Climb a while and you will pick up enough bail booty to make up for what you may have to leave.
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 2:27 PM
Post #5 of 131
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harpo_the_climber wrote: My question is about these: http://www.camp-usa.com/products/carabiners/oval-quick-links-zinc.asp I have seen them used in rappel anchors, and that makes sense, almost always with second anchor point for the rope. Can they also be used to back off a sport route? Last week we had to back off a sport climb, and we replaced the quick draw on the last bolt we reached with a quicklink (I think it was the smaller 8mm one) and backed off with that. It saved us from using a locker or quick draw. I did not have a wrench, so I hand tightened the gate. We got down OK, but is this a proper use of a quick link?
i guess it depends on where you climb and what the local practice is. where I live/climb (Mexico), its standard practice to bail using a quicklink... in fact you can see at least 1 quicklink in almost every harness... as they said, sometimes quicklinks rust closed, making them very hard to remove.. so, why do we use them instead of biners?? well, because we can get quicklinks rated at 800 kilos for $1 dollar, and the cheapest biner we can get locally is about $11 dollars.... so no one purchases leaver biners.. in fact we dont purchase quicklinks either, we pick them up from the routes where other people bail, just to go and leave them at harder routes... only once i have seen a climber abandon a route leaving 2 biners, one on the last bolt and one on the bolt under that one.... guess what route we climbed the next day....
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dingus
May 27, 2010, 2:36 PM
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Pretty funny shu2kill... you could do a study on the migration habits of booty links. How they migrate to more difficult routes, and get left at or just below hard moves, and how long they stay on harnesses, on average, etc.
The life of a quick link.....
Kinda like Chongo hitch-hauling up the Zodiac.
DMT
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 2:45 PM
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dingus wrote: Pretty funny shu2kill... you could do a study on the migration habits of booty links. How they migrate to more difficult routes, and get left at or just below hard moves, and how long they stay on harnesses, on average, etc. The life of a quick link..... Kinda like Chongo hitch-hauling up the Zodiac. DMT
haha, well, in fact, we are using a quicklink to see how often a route is climbed.... theres a great climbing place 3 hours from my city, and we go there twice a year.... on March 2009, we tried an overhanging 12c, failing miserably and leaving a quicklink on the third bolt... November 2009, we went there again, and moved the same link to the 4rth bolt... march 2010 we went again, and saw the same link on the fourth bolt... so in a year, that route has been climbed by about 4 of us.... at this rate we will reach the top by 2014 considering the route has 12 bolts....
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clc
May 27, 2010, 3:23 PM
Post #8 of 131
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don't leave Quicklinks
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harpo_the_climber
May 27, 2010, 3:38 PM
Post #9 of 131
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where do you get quick links for $1?
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 3:41 PM
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harpo_the_climber wrote: where do you get quick links for $1?
i live in Mexico.... some local hardwares have 800 kg quicklinks for 15 pesos. $1 dollar is 13 pesos... so its not exatcly $1, but $1.1 or so.... i have seen quicklinks so big they barely fit the hanger, for 25 pesos, about $2 USD....
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granite_grrl
May 27, 2010, 3:45 PM
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harpo_the_climber wrote: where do you get quick links for $1?
People, please don't leave quicklinks. They are too often cross-threaded or rusted shut and a pain for the next climbing. A cheap crappy biner doesn't cost that much and it's much better for the climbers on that route after you bail.
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 4:21 PM
Post #12 of 131
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granite_grrl wrote: harpo_the_climber wrote: where do you get quick links for $1? The same place where all the biners are $11. People, please don't leave quicklinks. They are too often cross-threaded or rusted shut and a pain for the next climbing. A cheap crappy biner doesn't cost that much and it's much better for the climbers on that route after you bail.
for the third time in this post, i live in Mexico... and no, not the same place where all the biners are $11... that place is one of the 2 stores that sells climbing equipment in the STATE i live in... and quicklinks we can find at any hardware store....
when the minimum wage per DAY here is less than the minimum per HOUR in the US, and the equipment costs twice as much, we cant really afford to leave biners....
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redlude97
May 27, 2010, 4:39 PM
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shu2kill wrote: granite_grrl wrote: harpo_the_climber wrote: where do you get quick links for $1? The same place where all the biners are $11. People, please don't leave quicklinks. They are too often cross-threaded or rusted shut and a pain for the next climbing. A cheap crappy biner doesn't cost that much and it's much better for the climbers on that route after you bail. for the third time in this post, i live in Mexico... and no, not the same place where all the biners are $11... that place is one of the 2 stores that sells climbing equipment in the STATE i live in... and quicklinks we can find at any hardware store.... when the minimum wage per DAY here is less than the minimum per HOUR in the US, and the equipment costs twice as much, we cant really afford to leave biners....
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patmay81
May 27, 2010, 4:41 PM
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this is why they still make oval biners! they are easier for the next guy to clean, and $5 is not going to break even the dirtiest dirt bag that ever climbed sport routes.
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 4:42 PM
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redlude97 wrote: shu2kill wrote: granite_grrl wrote: harpo_the_climber wrote: where do you get quick links for $1? The same place where all the biners are $11. People, please don't leave quicklinks. They are too often cross-threaded or rusted shut and a pain for the next climbing. A cheap crappy biner doesn't cost that much and it's much better for the climbers on that route after you bail. for the third time in this post, i live in Mexico... and no, not the same place where all the biners are $11... that place is one of the 2 stores that sells climbing equipment in the STATE i live in... and quicklinks we can find at any hardware store.... when the minimum wage per DAY here is less than the minimum per HOUR in the US, and the equipment costs twice as much, we cant really afford to leave biners.... Maybe you should stop bailing off routes then...
i wish, in fact there has been a long time since i left a quicklink, i have about 5 or 6 i picked from routes... but i always carry one, i like to push my limits and sometimes i cannot make it to the top...
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 5:01 PM
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patmay81 wrote: this is why they still make oval biners! they are easier for the next guy to clean, and $5 is not going to break even the dirtiest dirt bag that ever climbed sport routes.
we cant get $5 biners where i live.... the cheapest one is more than twice that price... when they are available...
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lena_chita
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May 27, 2010, 5:21 PM
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shu2kill wrote: harpo_the_climber wrote: My question is about these: http://www.camp-usa.com/products/carabiners/oval-quick-links-zinc.asp I have seen them used in rappel anchors, and that makes sense, almost always with second anchor point for the rope. Can they also be used to back off a sport route? Last week we had to back off a sport climb, and we replaced the quick draw on the last bolt we reached with a quicklink (I think it was the smaller 8mm one) and backed off with that. It saved us from using a locker or quick draw. I did not have a wrench, so I hand tightened the gate. We got down OK, but is this a proper use of a quick link? . where I live/climb (Mexico), its standard practice to bail using a quicklink... in fact you can see at least 1 quicklink in almost every harness...
You should move. The new trend at the Red, apparenty, is to leave a WHOLE quickdraw. I got 3 draws from 3 different routes so far this year (not a single one of them was harder than 5.11a) => 6 leaver 'biners. So far, I left one of them at the anchors. Net gain = 5 'biners.
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granite_grrl
May 27, 2010, 5:48 PM
Post #18 of 131
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redlude97 wrote: shu2kill wrote: granite_grrl wrote: harpo_the_climber wrote: where do you get quick links for $1? The same place where all the biners are $11. People, please don't leave quicklinks. They are too often cross-threaded or rusted shut and a pain for the next climbing. A cheap crappy biner doesn't cost that much and it's much better for the climbers on that route after you bail. for the third time in this post, i live in Mexico... and no, not the same place where all the biners are $11... that place is one of the 2 stores that sells climbing equipment in the STATE i live in... and quicklinks we can find at any hardware store.... when the minimum wage per DAY here is less than the minimum per HOUR in the US, and the equipment costs twice as much, we cant really afford to leave biners.... Maybe you should stop bailing off routes then...
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granite_grrl
May 27, 2010, 5:49 PM
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lena_chita wrote: shu2kill wrote: harpo_the_climber wrote: My question is about these: http://www.camp-usa.com/products/carabiners/oval-quick-links-zinc.asp I have seen them used in rappel anchors, and that makes sense, almost always with second anchor point for the rope. Can they also be used to back off a sport route? Last week we had to back off a sport climb, and we replaced the quick draw on the last bolt we reached with a quicklink (I think it was the smaller 8mm one) and backed off with that. It saved us from using a locker or quick draw. I did not have a wrench, so I hand tightened the gate. We got down OK, but is this a proper use of a quick link? . where I live/climb (Mexico), its standard practice to bail using a quicklink... in fact you can see at least 1 quicklink in almost every harness... You should move. The new trend at the Red, apparenty, is to leave a WHOLE quickdraw. I got 3 draws from 3 different routes so far this year (not a single one of them was harder than 5.11a) => 6 leaver 'biners. So far, I left one of them at the anchors. Net gain = 5 'biners.
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 5:58 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: redlude97 wrote: shu2kill wrote: granite_grrl wrote: harpo_the_climber wrote: where do you get quick links for $1? The same place where all the biners are $11. People, please don't leave quicklinks. They are too often cross-threaded or rusted shut and a pain for the next climbing. A cheap crappy biner doesn't cost that much and it's much better for the climbers on that route after you bail. for the third time in this post, i live in Mexico... and no, not the same place where all the biners are $11... that place is one of the 2 stores that sells climbing equipment in the STATE i live in... and quicklinks we can find at any hardware store.... when the minimum wage per DAY here is less than the minimum per HOUR in the US, and the equipment costs twice as much, we cant really afford to leave biners.... Maybe you should stop bailing off routes then... Or learn the tricks of the trade with a stick clip.....assuming you can afford one.
i have used a stick clip for the first or second hanger, but i had never thought about bringing one up to the 10th hanger.....
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bill413
May 27, 2010, 5:59 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: lena_chita wrote: shu2kill wrote: harpo_the_climber wrote: My question is about these: http://www.camp-usa.com/products/carabiners/oval-quick-links-zinc.asp I have seen them used in rappel anchors, and that makes sense, almost always with second anchor point for the rope. Can they also be used to back off a sport route? Last week we had to back off a sport climb, and we replaced the quick draw on the last bolt we reached with a quicklink (I think it was the smaller 8mm one) and backed off with that. It saved us from using a locker or quick draw. I did not have a wrench, so I hand tightened the gate. We got down OK, but is this a proper use of a quick link? . where I live/climb (Mexico), its standard practice to bail using a quicklink... in fact you can see at least 1 quicklink in almost every harness... You should move. The new trend at the Red, apparenty, is to leave a WHOLE quickdraw. I got 3 draws from 3 different routes so far this year (not a single one of them was harder than 5.11a) => 6 leaver 'biners. So far, I left one of them at the anchors. Net gain = 5 'biners. Damn.....nothing better than a n00b who doesn't understand taking apart a quickdraw.
After you cut them in half, how do you get rid of the nylon that's flopping around?
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 6:07 PM
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bill413 wrote: After you cut them in half, how do you get rid of the nylon that's flopping around?
you burn it to ashes.....
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bandycoot
May 27, 2010, 6:14 PM
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Yo, Shu2kill, I'm a huge proponent of leaving carabiners on routes when you bail, but I'd have to say that your circumstances are a little different down there. All these people telling you to do otherwise are idiots. I can pick up a carabiner for $4 which is significantly less than an hour of work. I can empathize, and if that's "how it's done" down there then the quicklinks are constantly being placed/removed and hopefully won't rust shut.
Josh
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shu2kill
May 27, 2010, 6:27 PM
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bandycoot wrote: Yo, Shu2kill, I'm a huge proponent of leaving carabiners on routes when you bail, but I'd have to say that your circumstances are a little different down there. All these people telling you to do otherwise are idiots. I can pick up a carabiner for $4 which is significantly less than an hour of work. I can empathize, and if that's "how it's done" down there then the quicklinks are constantly being placed/removed and hopefully won't rust shut. Josh
thanx for understanding... while I personally dont get anywhear near the minimum wage, i used it as an example... people here are working for $5 USD per 8 hours of work!! i know if i ever get to climb in the US and i have to bail, ill be leaving a biner, since thats what you do and one has to comply with local standards... however, you can come and leave biners here though hehehe
here the locals are used to quicklinks, in fact many of us carry a small wrench in our packs to loosen the ones that are too rusted.. so far i havent used it for that, just to tighten them when i setup chains at the anchors... the quicklinks i have found, i was able to loosen them by hand...
the only leaver biners i have seen, were left by non-locals without a topo, barely 5.10 climbers on a 5.11d route. they saw bolts and decided to try it, only to abandon a biner on the 4th hanger and another one on the third as a backup.... but they were outsiders that didnt know we dont leave biners, we even laughed a little about the free biners we were going to pick next day, which of course, we did....
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redlude97
May 27, 2010, 6:31 PM
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Climbers have been known to leave multiple cams on trad routes when they bail, which can be quite costly as well. IMO, its the price you pay for hopping on something above your level, and as others have pointed out, usually the number of bail biners you leave will equal out to the number that you find, so it works itself out usually. If you are on the wrong end of that then maybe you should think about what you are doing beyond your own aspirations. Remember that everyone shares the rock and you should do everything in your power to not inconvenience the next climber on the route.
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