Just out of curiosity: why not grab the draw in that situation?

Though it's not a hard-and-fast rule, getting into the habit of grabbing gear increases your chances of getting hurt with said gear... Imagine falling with a finger stuck in a carabiner or between quickdraw & hanger. Torn tendons, skinned fingers, all kinds of other things you don't want to picutre are likely.

Of course, people do it, esp. at the gym to get back on an overhanging route after falling or taking, but it's probably best to counter-act the natural tendency to grab for gear, especially when falling.

Agreed.

And, test-wise, it's probably better to fall than grab gear...

Why not just grab the dogbone or in the OP'ers case, grab the chains.?

And don't give me that "its not safe" BS. Any competent 5.9 climber can or should be able to grab a dogbone or some chains safely without injury.

If one gets into the habit of grabbing gear, they might make a decent aid climber.

Seems like a safer alternative than a broken ankle, knee, or belay error.

Clipping stance ( while at a rest ) is the main problem here.

I say stay safe until one builds up enough confidence and stamina to make a clean clip(s).... ( at draw or the anchor ).

This is a gym right?

It's not like a free attempt by some pro female climber that's being recorded for the next new sick climbing video.

Why not just grab the dogbone or in the OP'ers case, grab the chains.?

And don't give me that "its not safe" BS. Any competent 5.9 climber can or should be able to grab a dogbone or some chains safely without injury.

If one gets into the habit of grabbing gear, they might make a decent aid climber.

I say stay safe until one builds up enough confidence and stamina to make a clean clip(s).... ( at draw or the anchor ).

This is a gym right?

Wow, what gave you the idea I was a competent 5.9 climber? Heh, it must my blindingly awesome smile...

But anyhow, it IS a gym TEST, and I think the fall would be better than some draws, if nothing else, help me get the dynamics of falling. Some of us are just not born with the inherent knowledge of 'how to fall' so to speak.

I wouldn't grab the chains, which I've only seen outside on sport climbs, never in a gym. If I ever think I'm at the point of falling, I'll admit, I'm thinking of how far, what direction, the swing, etc, not...grab the chains with my completely pumped out hand...

But really, I prefer not to grab for gear. Something doesn't seem quite right about it, so I try not to get in the habit. Feels more right to grab for the rock actually...

Before I start aid climbing, I'd love to become this competent 5.9 climber that everyone is referencing around these parts.

At the end of the day, I just have to balls up and get over the idea of failing in front of some 'cool' evaluator at the gym and hope they don't revoke my membership cause I sully the climber community with my failure.

As someone told me once - 'Climber's CLIMB!' time for me to quite whining and CLIMB! hee hee

thanks for the encouragement!

cheers

ls

edit to add: and I've never climbed in an American gym. Only Euro gyms, and the ones I went to didn't have tests. Some don't even require the belay cert. Different scene over here. It was a long winter.

Sometimes I think about this. I climbed in a gym once in... Austria, I think. There wasn't even any staff in the gym proper. You paid at the desk at the indoor tennis courts on the same property. "Have you climbed before?" "Yes" "Okay, have fun." Nothing to sign. No names taken. The gym was set up as lead only.

cool! chicks dig scars.

and I'd also add that grabbing gear on an overhang becomes more dangerous than on slab or vertical.
best to fall.

I don't even want to post some pics/threads about falling accidents.

Agreed.

And, test-wise, it's probably better to fall than grab gear...

If taken in the context of beginners, the safer arena of gym or sport climbing... maybe... its better to fall than to grab.

As one who utterly smashed his leg after thinking 'grab the pro dude' on a trad route and the not grabbing it?

My advice to younger, less injured climbers is this... if grabbing the pro will keep you whole resist the pull of someone else's ego over what are for the most part style issues..

Grabbing or not grabbing pro is a question of style. The safety aspect is much larger than pinching a finger in the gate of a biner.

For example, most 'safe' sport routes hold the potential for ground impact falls. Like the first or 2nd clips... if you are shaky, that is not the time nor place for heroic style points. Grab the fucking draw, clip it and worry about style points later.



DMT

Yes some stoned master hard woman wants to risk her life on points for style, that is her right and informed risk to assume.

But beginners should not put expert style limitations on themselves too soon.

Free climbing is a game. A GAME, nothing more. For some it grows into a way of life, good for them. But for most folk, when the game ends work looms and its back to the grindstone mate, escapism over.

In free climbing, you lose the ascent when you grab the draw, game over, for the free climbing anyway. But you know what?

If you don't grab the draw, fall and break your leg? Its not just that one pitch that's over... you won't be free climbing much of anything for a long time to come.

There is value in hanging on, gritting it out and pushing through to success. There will be many times for that in a climbing career.

There are also times when its bloody well prudent to grab the damn draw and don't let any Gym Lord tell you that his style is how you should climb. Even beginners are responsible for their own ass. Don't be in a hurry to surrender that responsibility to anyone (me included).

BTW, I've climbed with Ladyscarlett and will gladly rope up again with her any time, and I hope it will be soon.

DMT

The purpose of this post is to highlight my sheer stupidity as a beginner leader.

I've taken lead falls (not many) climbing outside. And yet, I am STILL afraid to lead in the gym!!!

WHY?!?!?

Simple - outside, when topping out and finishing a lead, I'm generally at a solid stance, or hands free/secure setting up an anchor. At the gym, all the lead climbs are overhanging, so they finish from very hands dependent 3 point stances. The unfamiliarity of 'clipping in to the anchor' on lead from a negative body position is getting to my head. What if...

ps - thanks for being part of my mental process

some stoned master hard woman

DMT

Grabbing onto a quickdraw or chain is a lot different than actually threading your finger through a hanger to keep yourself from falling, heh.

Grabbing or not grabbing pro is a question of style.

dingus, great posts... I don't quite agree with the above, though -- grabbing gear is also a question of safety, in both directions. And that's the perspetive I was coming from in my earlier post -- the specific risks of injury. Obviously, there are many cases where these are outweighed by more serious injury risk, esp. outside. Also, the fall risk is more obvious then the mechanism of how you can get hurt by gear.

Anyway, I certainly agree with what you said, if it's "style" vs. "smashed leg", better sacrifice style than bone. That's just not what I was getting at...