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ski.ninja
Jun 22, 2010, 4:53 AM
Post #101 of 142
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majid_sabet wrote: you better come up with something new and soon or I am going to loose my faith on German climbers.
That could get pretty sticky, better bring a towel.
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jt512
Jun 22, 2010, 5:04 AM
Post #102 of 142
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Adan wrote: in the end i think nobody should just take advice from a post posted by somebody in some climbing forum.
Yes, but that does not justify giving out advice that you're not qualified to give.
Jay
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jt512
Jun 22, 2010, 5:11 AM
Post #104 of 142
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Adan wrote: In reply to: I have a feeling that you think we are retard and you keep telling us what is safe or not but you are forgetting that 98% of posts in RC is about this model /type anchor and we had analyze the sh*t of this sort of things over 10.000 times.you better come up with something new and soon or I am going to loose my faith on German climbers. I get it. just keep using whatever you are using. I was just trying to offer some additional information on the topic and present it from a different point of few and illustrate what we teach in europe. No reason to offend people on a personal level.
No, you have not been giving out "information," as if you actually know something that the rest of us poor ignoramuses don't. You've merely been parroting what you've read from whatever your sources are, without a real understanding of the underlying issues, or the thought and research done by other equally qualified people, who have come to different conclusions.
Jay
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Adan
Jun 22, 2010, 6:02 AM
Post #105 of 142
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In reply to: I will, thank you. Also, wtf is up with THIS thing?
The right 3 illustrations show the recomondation from the german and austrian alpine club in how to build an anchor if you have at least one good bolt.
The picture on the left is not considered safe enough as there is only a single clove hitched sling connecting to the second bolt.
jt512 wrote: Adan wrote: In reply to: I have a feeling that you think we are retard and you keep telling us what is safe or not but you are forgetting that 98% of posts in RC is about this model /type anchor and we had analyze the sh*t of this sort of things over 10.000 times.you better come up with something new and soon or I am going to loose my faith on German climbers. I get it. just keep using whatever you are using. I was just trying to offer some additional information on the topic and present it from a different point of few and illustrate what we teach in europe. No reason to offend people on a personal level. No, you have not been giving out "information," as if you actually know something that the rest of us poor ignoramuses don't. You've merely been parroting what you've read from whatever your sources are, without a real understanding of the underlying issues, or the thought and research done by other equally qualified people, who have come to different conclusions. Jay
Well i do know something you don't know. A lot of studies and tests done by the Austrian and German alpine club. And apparently you are to ignorant to even consider the possibility that there might be something true and valuable about these researches.
I always stated all my sources and nobody so far could state me any other scientific research or similar which would proof that these setups are not good.
Besides, I do not claim to have huge experience about setting up anchors; that is why I let myself be convinced by people who do have the experience and meaningful arguments and research.
The stuff done by the German alpine club is all in german, so i wanted to give you the possibility to get an insight in that even if you do not speak german....
" research done by other equally qualified people"
Please give me some sources then...i am happy to read whatever you have.
But please not only this Long guy who apprently did some testing which is not really reflected by real world setups, as Patto stated in the other post...
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patto
Jun 22, 2010, 6:08 AM
Post #106 of 142
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jt512 wrote: No, you have not been giving out "information," as if you actually know something that the rest of us poor ignoramuses don't. You've merely been parroting what you've read from whatever your sources are, without a real understanding of the underlying issues, or the thought and research done by other equally qualified people, who have come to different conclusions. Jay
Could you for once in your life quit being so condecending? You are being an arsehole to somebody who came to discuss anchors.
What do you think you will achieve here? Be so rude to somebody that they never come back to these forums?
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jt512
Jun 22, 2010, 6:37 AM
Post #108 of 142
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patto wrote: jt512 wrote: No, you have not been giving out "information," as if you actually know something that the rest of us poor ignoramuses don't. You've merely been parroting what you've read from whatever your sources are, without a real understanding of the underlying issues, or the thought and research done by other equally qualified people, who have come to different conclusions. Jay Could you for once in your life quit being so condecending?
You're confused about who is being condescending.
Jay
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jt512
Jun 22, 2010, 7:04 AM
Post #109 of 142
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Adan wrote: Well i do know something you don't know. A lot of studies and tests done by the Austrian and German alpine club.
First of all, we have no way of knowing whether you've interpreted these tests correctly, since we don't speak German, and neither you nor they have provided an English translation.
In reply to: And apparently you are to ignorant to even consider the possibility that there might be something true and valuable about these researches.
No, actually, I'm quite interested in their results. I just have no idea what to do with presentations of these results as if they were indisputable scientific truths by as arrogant 3-year-know-it-all-n00b who is completely unaware of any other research outside of his beloved German and Austrian alpine clubs, or the practical experience of hundreds of thousands of climbers around the world.
In reply to: [N]obody so far could state me any other scientific research or similar which would proof that these setups are not good. [...] But please not only this Long guy who apprently did some testing which is not really reflected by real world setups, as Patto stated in the other post...
So, on the one hand, you accuse us of ignoring "your" research findings, while, on the other, you completely blow off "ours?" At least you can read "ours"; but you haven't, have you? Yet you dismiss it out of hand.
And while we're on the subject of language, could you please look up the spelling of the English verb "prove" (and "bowline," while you're at it). I may not speak your language, but if I did, I'd make my best effort to write it correctly, and not ignore it when native speakers corrected me.
Jay
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quiteatingmysteak
Jun 22, 2010, 7:10 AM
Post #110 of 142
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Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 804
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caughtinside wrote: jt512 wrote: cleethree wrote: jt512 wrote: Why not just two quick draws? then you don't have dynamic equalization buddy. also anchors need to have at least 1 locker to be safe. shock loading isn't an issue here because there is a dynamic rope in the equation. go re-read a book, get your facts straight, then post. Oh, I can see that you and I are going to get along real well. Jay Read a book, n00b!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8
(This post was edited by quiteatingmysteak on Jun 22, 2010, 7:21 AM)
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avalon420
Jun 22, 2010, 11:32 AM
Post #111 of 142
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Posts: 281
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jt512 wrote: TarHeelEMT wrote: jt512 wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: After reading about a billion posts about how to properly build an anchor... I just wanted to make sure that I'm not the idiot: Two good bolts - sliding X Why not just two quick draws? Not good for multipitch. What advantage does a sliding x have over two draws for a 2-bolt anchor on a multi-pitch climb? Jay
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JimTitt
Jun 22, 2010, 11:40 AM
Post #112 of 142
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Registered: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 1002
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Don´t worry, the German climbers I know are too smart to bother with all this sh*t as well!
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chadnsc
Jun 22, 2010, 1:00 PM
Post #115 of 142
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Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449
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Adan wrote: about 3 years. i never claimed to be more experienced or anything than these people with 10000 posts.... i base my advice on my experience and on the experience of the people working in the german and austrian alpine club, which are all way way more experienced and educated than i am.... and i trust scientific tests if they are conducted in a realistic and meaningful setup. i mentioned before, i am always happy to let somebody convice me of better things, if the arguments are good. in the end i think nobody should just take advice from a post posted by somebody in some climbing forum. read all arguments and then build your own opinion, that is what i am trying to do....
Son,
I've been climbing for 8 years and the one thing I've learned is that no matter how much I know there is always more to learn.
Things that were once thought to be bomber and good enough when I started climbing are not considered to be suspect.
You don't know as much as you think you do, remember that no matter how long you've been climbing.
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 22, 2010, 1:32 PM
Post #117 of 142
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Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
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chadnsc wrote: Adan wrote: about 3 years. i never claimed to be more experienced or anything than these people with 10000 posts.... i base my advice on my experience and on the experience of the people working in the german and austrian alpine club, which are all way way more experienced and educated than i am.... and i trust scientific tests if they are conducted in a realistic and meaningful setup. i mentioned before, i am always happy to let somebody convice me of better things, if the arguments are good. in the end i think nobody should just take advice from a post posted by somebody in some climbing forum. read all arguments and then build your own opinion, that is what i am trying to do.... Son, I've been climbing for 8 years and the one thing I've learned is that no matter how much I know there is always more to learn. Things that were once thought to be bomber and good enough when I started climbing are not considered to be suspect. You don't know as much as you think you do, remember that no matter how long you've been climbing.
In Adan's defense, I think I knew everything after climbing for 3 years. Think of it in terms of dog years. That would make him late teens/early 20's as far as climbing years go. Yeah, that sounds about right 
Josh
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sittingduck
Jun 22, 2010, 1:43 PM
Post #118 of 142
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Registered: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 338
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j_ung wrote: Did you just whip that up yourself?
I did, kinda sloppy, sorry.
I was hoping that someone would explain how to use this anchor. Am I for instance supposed to attach anything to the master-point?
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elholando
Jun 22, 2010, 2:29 PM
Post #119 of 142
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Registered: Oct 4, 2007
Posts: 26
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Quad? I've only found a few threads on this, so I wanted to get the old timers take on using a quad on a two-bolt anchor. Is it a viable option or is it overkill compared to the sliding X? I use it, and it seems quick and easy to me.
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chadnsc
Jun 22, 2010, 2:55 PM
Post #120 of 142
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Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449
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blueeyedclimber wrote: chadnsc wrote: Adan wrote: about 3 years. i never claimed to be more experienced or anything than these people with 10000 posts.... i base my advice on my experience and on the experience of the people working in the german and austrian alpine club, which are all way way more experienced and educated than i am.... and i trust scientific tests if they are conducted in a realistic and meaningful setup. i mentioned before, i am always happy to let somebody convice me of better things, if the arguments are good. in the end i think nobody should just take advice from a post posted by somebody in some climbing forum. read all arguments and then build your own opinion, that is what i am trying to do.... Son, I've been climbing for 8 years and the one thing I've learned is that no matter how much I know there is always more to learn. Things that were once thought to be bomber and good enough when I started climbing are not considered to be suspect. You don't know as much as you think you do, remember that no matter how long you've been climbing. In Adan's defense, I think I knew everything after climbing for 3 years. Think of it in terms of dog years. That would make him late teens/early 20's as far as climbing years go. Yeah, that sounds about right Josh
. . . and hence my advice.
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donald949
Jun 22, 2010, 4:59 PM
Post #121 of 142
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Registered: May 24, 2007
Posts: 11455
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rtwilli4 wrote: After reading about a billion posts about how to properly build an anchor... I just wanted to make sure that I'm not the idiot: Two good bolts - sliding X Gear anchor - cord in a loop, or one long cord w/ knots at the ends Using the lead rope - yea, if it makes sense Tree - sling it This is basically it right? I mean has some prodigy come along and created a new way of doing things or what? Please someone tell me if I'm out of line here.
In the runnig for troll of the year.
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rtwilli4
Jun 22, 2010, 5:19 PM
Post #122 of 142
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Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867
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donald949 wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: After reading about a billion posts about how to properly build an anchor... I just wanted to make sure that I'm not the idiot: Two good bolts - sliding X Gear anchor - cord in a loop, or one long cord w/ knots at the ends Using the lead rope - yea, if it makes sense Tree - sling it This is basically it right? I mean has some prodigy come along and created a new way of doing things or what? Please someone tell me if I'm out of line here. Strong werk. In the runnig for troll of the year.
YES!
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majid_sabet
Jun 22, 2010, 5:43 PM
Post #123 of 142
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Posts: 8390
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sittingduck wrote: avalon420 wrote: None, sliding x has been discredited in more ways than the web-o-let, And two good bolts aare NOT always place dead horizontal or in proper direction of load (providing for un-EQed load) . Use rope or 2 tied off/equalized runners.(Clip runners to bolts, find load direction and tie as u would cordlett. then clip locker THROUGH BOTH slings ABOVE knot (u will be able to rotate knot up toward bolts if its right)SUper cool UIAA accepted trick, Im full of em. I am trying to picture what the two-runner-anchor looks like. Is it something like this? [image]http://www.home.no/sittingduck/anchor123.jpg[/image]
looks like a double American Death Triangle
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hansundfritz
Jun 22, 2010, 6:04 PM
Post #124 of 142
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Registered: Sep 18, 2008
Posts: 139
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I'm an old-timer in real life (c. 25 years climbing) -- though only a relative noob here on the macrame channel... if any of this context matters.
In support of a comment made up-thread about old dogs learning new tricks, I picked up the Quad from reading Long's second edition just a year or two ago. Although I don't go to bolted areas very much, I use the Quad and like it a lot. Yes, you're carrying an extra piece of stuff, but it is very convenient and bomber.
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bill413
Jun 22, 2010, 6:55 PM
Post #125 of 142
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hansundfritz wrote: I'm an old-timer in real life (c. 25 years climbing) -- though only a relative noob here on the macrame channel... if any of this context matters. In support of a comment made up-thread about old dogs learning new tricks, I picked up the Quad from reading Long's second edition just a year or two ago. Although I don't go to bolted areas very much, I use the Quad and like it a lot. Yes, you're carrying an extra piece of stuff, but it is very convenient and bomber.
When I read about the Quad, I thought it was great. It is bomber, self-adjusting, etc. But I think it's overkill. Especially when you're in a group where you're leading more than TR.
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