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"mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout?
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sp00ki


Jul 12, 2010, 10:12 AM
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"mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout?
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I've decided that i am lightyears away from being comfortable enough on lead to climb purely trad routes.

That said, i've recently been exposed to sport routes that have runouts without bolts that can be protected (apparently) with gear.

Since i'm not going to spend the money on a full rack, are there four or five key pieces that will cover most of the situations a sport climber will encounter on a mixed route? In other words, is there essential protection that even every sport climber should have in their bag?

Thx.


charlie.elverson


Jul 12, 2010, 10:41 AM
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That completely depends on the area and the climb. if there are any trad climbs around, you can check out what the standard rack consists of. That would probably be a decent place to start.


avalon420


Jul 12, 2010, 10:44 AM
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Re: [sp00ki] "mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout? [In reply to]
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I seldom climb sport, but have had lots of fun turning sport routes into "trad" lines by climbing them on gear only. A set of nuts, a set of small brass, a set ot Met. TCUs, And the first 3 tri-cams (new sizes plus the Old Pinke) are my typical rack for such endevours. Not essential but occasionaly handy are a few Big Bros. Duct tape(i suggest Gorilla Glue's brand), and a few hooks are also handy if you get a bit crazy. Have fun & be "Safe"!!!!


sp00ki


Jul 12, 2010, 10:49 AM
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Re: [avalon420] "mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout? [In reply to]
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Uhh... this is way more than i was thinking.

So there isn't some "swiss army" set for sport climbers? Like, a small handful of pieces that will satisfy 80% of the sport routes out there?

I'm thinking no...


jt512


Jul 12, 2010, 10:57 AM
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Re: [sp00ki] "mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout? [In reply to]
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sp00ki wrote:
Uhh... this is way more than i was thinking.

So there isn't some "swiss army" set for sport climbers? Like, a small handful of pieces that will satisfy 80% of the sport routes out there?

I'm thinking no...

Even if there were, it wouldn't be worth the public humiliation of carrying gear up a sport route.

Jay


sp00ki


Jul 12, 2010, 11:00 AM
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jt512 wrote:
sp00ki wrote:
Uhh... this is way more than i was thinking.

So there isn't some "swiss army" set for sport climbers? Like, a small handful of pieces that will satisfy 80% of the sport routes out there?

I'm thinking no...

Even if there were, it wouldn't be worth the public humiliation of carrying gear up a sport route.

Jay

You can usually tell from the ground where there's big runout, so you'd only have to look like a babyclowndorkface once every twenty or so routes.


(This post was edited by sp00ki on Jul 12, 2010, 11:01 AM)


kriso9tails


Jul 12, 2010, 11:03 AM
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Re: [sp00ki] "mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout? [In reply to]
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I got by for a while with a set of nuts with just a couple of the mid-sizes doubled up. It was cheap. It got the job done. If there was something I couldn't protect, I just climbed through. When there was decking potential, I made a judgment call.

You might need more pro than quotation marks to stop the "mixed route" terminology criticism though.


Jnclk


Jul 12, 2010, 11:08 AM
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Many mixed routes are trad lines where the bolts were placed on lead. These are not sport routes.

If the lines you're referring to are indeed sport routes then the runouts are likely well below the grade.

The definition of essentials will vary depending on a person's skill at placing gear as well as their climbing ability.A good place to start would be a set of nuts (BD #4-13 or equivalent), cams from finger size to hand size, and a handful of shoulder length slings. However, if you're light years away from leading gear routes comfortably I'd steer clear of mixed routes until you're comfortable leading on gear.


jt512


Jul 12, 2010, 11:10 AM
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Jnclk wrote:

Many mixed routes are trad lines where the bolts were placed on lead. These are not sport routes.

And they're not "mixed routes" either.

Jay


avalon420


Jul 12, 2010, 11:32 AM
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sp00ki wrote:
Uhh... this is way more than i was thinking.

So there isn't some "swiss army" set for sport climbers? Like, a small handful of pieces that will satisfy 80% of the sport routes out there?

I'm thinking no...
Yes, quick draws, but thats spurt climberish, and one would assume you (spurt climber) allredy own 4 dozen. That was my bolt SKIPPING rack, not bolt SUPPLEMENTING, and was perhaps a bit much, but a good start none the less. Like most people will say "Ask the locals". That is assuming you have locals who regularly protect sport routes w/ gear, my guess is probably not. MY most used pieces, in order, are; brass, small tri-cams, 00-1 TCUs, and then some mid size nuts. But, say for instance you have lots of huecos in your are, then the Big Bros may be more useful, or lots of little pockets for tri-cams, or maybe no features at all other than small edges, in wich case hooks & tape are the only option. It all depends so just "Go ask the locals", or better yet, look at the potential placements and figure it out on your own (best option)


bill413


Jul 12, 2010, 12:19 PM
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There are sport routes in our area that do require trad gear. They are referred to as "Mixed." (Properly, I suppose, this term really applies to combination ice/rock climbing - perhaps we should use "summer mixed.")

If you don't have your own gear, talk to locals about what's needed, and see if you can borrow it. It is very dependent on the climb, and also on the climber, for what you'll need. One person may pop in 4 pieces of pro, another would want 6 for the same climb. And, as said, it depends on what the rock will take.

It's like asking "what should I get for a trad rack" (many threads about that) - but even worse - you're asking "what should I get for half a trad rack."


climbingaggie03


Jul 12, 2010, 12:23 PM
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Re: [sp00ki] "mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout? [In reply to]
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So this is probably not a good idea for you, but you could buy a few link cams, or metolious super cams, they both have a pretty extended range so they would cover a wide range of choices with minimal pieces of gear.

The reason this isn't a good idea for you is because these pieces can be finicky to place even for experienced leaders and they have failed a couple of times from being placed/loaded wrong. So I don't recommend that you do this, but link cams are the the closest thing I can think of to a swiss army knife rack.


caughtinside


Jul 12, 2010, 12:27 PM
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Re: [sp00ki] "mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout? [In reply to]
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sp00ki wrote:
I've decided that i am lightyears away from being comfortable enough on lead to climb purely trad routes.

That said, i've recently been exposed to sport routes that have runouts without bolts that can be protected (apparently) with gear.

Since i'm not going to spend the money on a full rack, are there four or five key pieces that will cover most of the situations a sport climber will encounter on a mixed route? In other words, is there essential protection that even every sport climber should have in their bag?

Thx.

The gear placing skills on these routes are still the same. You don't have these skills. Don't think you're being safer because a route has some bolts on it.


sp00ki


Jul 12, 2010, 12:32 PM
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Yep. I'm just going to wait.


wmfork


Jul 12, 2010, 12:52 PM
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sp00ki wrote:
Since i'm not going to spend the money on a full rack, are there four or five key pieces that will cover most of the situations a sport climber will encounter on a mixed route? In other words, is there essential protection that even every sport climber should have in their bag?

The ones I've encountered (that are deliberately bolted with gear supplement in mind) usually have fairly straight forward gear placement. Depending on the area and how hard the routes are, I'd get the 2 largest C3s and a few camalots. With that said, of all the time I carried gear before I started climbing trad, I never once placed any gear on a route.

Aren't you the guy that jammed your ankle falling off the 2nd bolt of some 12a at the zoo? I can understand why you think you are years away from leading on gear, you certainly don't find a lot of support from people who like to fondle with gear, they don't want to tell you it isn't hard to learn. As one sport climber (at heart) to another, I don't like dealing with gear either; it detracts from the physical aspect of climbing. But like anything else in life, if you have enough desire to do something (like getting up a cool route), it wouldn't take you that long to learn the necessary trade.


darkgift06


Jul 12, 2010, 1:13 PM
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I'd take 2 types of pro.

a rack of nuts, standard sizes
4-5 cams, mixed sizes 3 small & 2 larger


But every climb is different, so make sure you look at the climb b4 you hop onto it.. If it looks like finger size protection, you might want more small cams... or vise-versa.


cleethree


Jul 12, 2010, 2:41 PM
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a collapsible stick clip


dugl33


Jul 12, 2010, 3:07 PM
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There was a time when the bolts were supplementing the pro, not the other way around.

Maybe just start with a set of stoppers, no 4 through 13 -- good bang for the buck. Practice placing them on the ground first. Clip a sling in it and bounce on it for feedback.

Ignore most of the other advice posted.

Also, whoever one starred the link cam suggestion, what's up with that? Maybe not the way to go since they're so dang pricey, but for a compact minimalist rack, could be a great way to go. Otherwise, consider adding 0,1,2,3 metolius ultralight tcus, .5,.75, 1, and 2 C4 to the stoppers set. What to actually carry will be route specific but this will cover most of what you're likely to encounter.


caughtinside


Jul 12, 2010, 3:11 PM
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dugl33 wrote:
There was a time when the bolts were supplementing the pro, not the other way around.

Maybe just start with a set of stoppers, no 4 through 13 -- good bang for the buck. Practice placing them on the ground first. Clip a sling in it and bounce on it for feedback.

Ignore most of the other advice posted.

Also, whoever one starred the link cam suggestion, what's up with that? Maybe not the way to go since they're so dang pricey, but for a compact minimalist rack, could be a great way to go. Otherwise, consider adding 0,1,2,3 metolius ultralight tcus, .5,.75, 1, and 2 C4 to the stoppers set. What to actually carry will be route specific but this will cover most of what you're likely to encounter.

dude you just told him to buy 8 cams and a set of nuts. Easier to just find a plain old crack.


dugl33


Jul 12, 2010, 3:14 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
dugl33 wrote:
There was a time when the bolts were supplementing the pro, not the other way around.

Maybe just start with a set of stoppers, no 4 through 13 -- good bang for the buck. Practice placing them on the ground first. Clip a sling in it and bounce on it for feedback.

Ignore most of the other advice posted.

Also, whoever one starred the link cam suggestion, what's up with that? Maybe not the way to go since they're so dang pricey, but for a compact minimalist rack, could be a great way to go. Otherwise, consider adding 0,1,2,3 metolius ultralight tcus, .5,.75, 1, and 2 C4 to the stoppers set. What to actually carry will be route specific but this will cover most of what you're likely to encounter.

dude you just told him to buy 8 cams and a set of nuts. Easier to just find a plain old crack.

Well, I did say just start with a set of stoppers. Tongue


jt512


Jul 12, 2010, 3:45 PM
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Re: [dugl33] "mixed route" essentials for avoiding runout? [In reply to]
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dugl33 wrote:
Also, whoever one starred the link cam suggestion, what's up with that?

I 1-starred the Link cam post. Telling a beginning climber to buy a Link cam for their first piece of gear is like telling a beginning pilot to buy a Learjet for their first airplane: they're expensive and they require considerable skill to use safely. Furthermore, the person who made the post knew it was bad advice. He said so right in the post, and even posted the reason it was bad advice. I gave him one star for knowingly posting potentially dangerous advice to a beginner.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jul 12, 2010, 3:45 PM)


lena_chita
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Jul 12, 2010, 3:50 PM
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sp00ki wrote:
Uhh... this is way more than i was thinking.

So there isn't some "swiss army" set for sport climbers? Like, a small handful of pieces that will satisfy 80% of the sport routes out there?

I'm thinking no...

I would go with NO-- because it is situational, and any gear you would use on a gear climb might happen to be the one that is needed on the runout-with-optional-piece sport climb.

In general, if it is a sport climb with a runout that has a possibility of a gear placement, the guidebook (at least the RRG or NRG) with often say something like "bring an optional #2 cam along to place before the mantel"

And if guidebook isn't so accomodating, you can usually guesstimate from the bottom and bring one or two pieces that are likely to fit.

IMO, you can start building up your gear rack slowly with couple pieces at a time, and just skip the routes that look like they would use something you don't have. It isn't like you have outclimbed the Red and the New by now... you can climb there for many more years and still not run out of sport routes to do without "optional gear placements".


patmay81


Jul 12, 2010, 3:52 PM
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I actually started climbing outside on routes requiring mixed gear. The first bolt being 35-40' off the ground, and crappy spacing there after. I bought two hexes a #4 c4 and a #2 TCU, and half a set of nuts to climb my first climb. If you are interested in getting into trad, buy what you need to do one or two climbs that you are interested in.
There is no "these pieces work for all trad climbs with bolts on them" rack. Tard climbing is expensive, but only relative to cheaper sports (eg. spurt climbing or bouldering).


climbingaggie03


Jul 20, 2010, 9:12 PM
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So I don't know why this popped into my head, but I thought about this thread and so I thought I'd add that if I'm headed up to set a top rope anchor, or want to supplement some bolts I'll usually take like 3 mid range pieces.

I usually take Yellow, orange, and red TCU's and my number 2 link cam.

I would say that if you wanted to get like Yellow, Orange, and Red TCU's and also green, red and yellow BD camalots, that'd cover a pretty good range and only be six pieces. You could probably omit the yellow or red TCU and still have pretty decent coverage.

I don't know if that would cover what you need to supplement a sport route, because things just depend on the route, but that would give you a piece for pretty much everything from a finger sized crack to big hand sized crack. You could also probably do just as well with metolious FCU's (power cams?) I just like TCU's cause I see alot of pin scars.


Johnny_Fang


Jul 20, 2010, 10:14 PM
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