Rock Climbing Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Alpine & Ice: using non dry rope on snow

Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Alpine & Ice:
using non dry rope on snow

RSS Feeds for Alpine & Ice

Premier Sponsor:

angeleyes

Jul 25, 2010, 6:24 AM
Post #1 of 19 (7466 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 58

using non dry rope on snow Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

There's a coulier in the sierras in good condition I'm heading up soon with a buddy. It's possible on the way up that we might want to belay from a deadman in a few sections

I was thinking to take my 30m 10.2 non dry rope if possible for this. However I don't really know what happens when you get a non dry rope in the snow.

Does it rapidly soak up moisture get bigger and impossible to use, or loose its dynamic properties or?

I plan to buy a nice dry alpine rope just don't have the cash before this short trip.

thanks

(This post was edited by angeleyes on Jul 25, 2010, 6:25 AM)

skiclimb

Jul 25, 2010, 7:15 AM
Post #2 of 19 (7458 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 1938

Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

Nah it will be fine. It will get wet and heavier it won't swell and will work ok. wet ropes belay slightly differently but it's an easy adjustment.

Wet ropes are weaker but a 10.2 has plenty to spare.

Even supposed "dry" ropes get waterlogged eventually.

(This post was edited by skiclimb on Jul 25, 2010, 7:17 AM)

Bolter

Jul 25, 2010, 8:17 AM
Post #3 of 19 (7447 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 21, 2009
Posts: 50

Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (4 ratings)	Can't Post

Snow and Ice climbing was being done for a long time before "Dry" treatment came around.

sittingduck

Jul 25, 2010, 11:28 AM
Post #4 of 19 (7424 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 338

Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

angeleyes wrote:

In my experience, ropes may freeze and become difficult to feed into any atc-style device. It is mildly ironic that the ridiculed rappel-8 works better than any atc-style device under cold and icy conditions.

I got tired of carrying heavy and bulky gear that never got used, so I do not bring deadmans anymore. It is possible to makeshift solutions if absolutely needed.

Summits are often covered in snow. Then I just dig my feet in, sit in the snow, and use the super fast hip-belay.

(This post was edited by sittingduck on Jul 25, 2010, 11:30 AM)

jaablink

Jul 25, 2010, 11:37 AM
Post #5 of 19 (7420 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 537

Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (1 rating)	Can't Post

Depending on the temp. As the rope gets wet it freezes. This will create stiff spots and ice can buildup on the line. This will greatly effect the performance and handling of the line. I have used them before and in mild temps they were ok, but on colder and windy days they were a real pain in the ass. For about 150bucks you would not be disappointed if you went with a dry line instead.

jaablink

Jul 25, 2010, 12:07 PM
Post #6 of 19 (7415 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 537

Re: [Bolter] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (2 ratings)	Can't Post

Bolter wrote:

Snow and Ice climbing was being done for a long time before "Dry" treatment came around.

Even back in the day they were tackling the problem of icing. It was not unheard of to use various types of waxes and oils to treat your rope in the early 1900 mountaineering expiditions.

Make no mistake, treatments have been around for much longer than you and I. We now have a much more effective and longer lasting dry treatment that do not need constant reapplying now, but its not a new thing.

angeleyes

Jul 26, 2010, 4:17 AM
Post #7 of 19 (7352 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 58

Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

thanks for the replies okay I decided to eat top ramen for a week and managed to pick up a 25m dry short for $65 :-D

That will get me buy for stuff like this, and give me time to decide on what a nice 50m would be to buy for alpine.

the potential waterlogged heavy rope is what tipped the scales hehe.

DoctorSalt

Aug 9, 2010, 10:06 PM
Post #8 of 19 (7196 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 15, 2010
Posts: 25

Re: [angeleyes] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

Correct me if I'm wrong/misguided, but isn't it possible to dry treat a (cleaned) non dry rope? I believe I saw some can of treatment stuff in some store some place

tomtom

Aug 10, 2010, 4:51 PM
Post #9 of 19 (7160 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 9, 2004
Posts: 366

Re: [DoctorSalt] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

The treatments don't work very well.

dingus

Aug 10, 2010, 4:58 PM
Post #10 of 19 (7152 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398

Re: [tomtom] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (1 rating)	Can't Post

Just keep in mind its a Sierra couloir, in summer, we are talking about here, not the North Face of the Eiger.

A (post edit - NON)-dry rope will stay mostly dry in gullies when the snow is frozen or given over to ice... for the duration of the climb.

I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought (but see you already got an alpine shorty/dry to use, problem doubly solved)

Rain is the wet maker.

DMT

(This post was edited by dingus on Aug 10, 2010, 6:09 PM)

olderic

Aug 10, 2010, 6:04 PM
Post #11 of 19 (7120 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 1539

Re: [dingus] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

dingus wrote:

Just keep in mind its a Sierra couloir, in summer, we are talking about here, not the North Face of the Eiger.

A dry rope will stay mostly dry in gullies when the snow is frozen or given over to ice... for the duration of the climb.

I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought (but see you already got an alpine shorty/dry to use, problem doubly solved)

Rain is the wet maker.

DMT

I think Dingus meant a non-dry rope in this context.

dingus

Aug 10, 2010, 6:09 PM
Post #12 of 19 (7118 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398

Re: [olderic] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (1 rating)	Can't Post

Yes thank you. I did mean a non-treated rope.

DMT

trenchdigger

Aug 10, 2010, 6:20 PM
Post #13 of 19 (7105 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 9, 2003
Posts: 1447

Re: [dingus] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

And if the couloir is "in", you shouldn't be needing a deadman. Which route? Many of them have options for rock belays as well.

majid_sabet

Aug 10, 2010, 6:25 PM
Post #14 of 19 (7100 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390

Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (2 ratings)	Can't Post

angeleyes wrote:

I am writing a book on accidents and one of the chapters has a case with two dead climber trying to climbing on a hard rope in winter. Could not rap, could not jug, both died.

Go get a dry rope

tomtom

Aug 11, 2010, 3:41 PM
Post #15 of 19 (7047 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 9, 2004
Posts: 366

Re: [majid_sabet] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (1 rating)	Can't Post

majid_sabet wrote:

I am writing a book on accidents and one of the chapters has a case with two dead climber trying to climbing on a hard rope in winter.

Are these like zombie climbers?

I can't wait to read your chapter on deaths due to microfractures.

subantz

Aug 11, 2010, 4:22 PM
Post #16 of 19 (7034 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 7, 2007
Posts: 1247

Re: [angeleyes] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

angeleyes wrote:

Where in the hell is it snowing its like 100 degrees outside?????

rock_fencer

Aug 11, 2010, 4:43 PM
Post #17 of 19 (7025 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 7, 2005
Posts: 752

Re: [subantz] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

its not 100 degrees in places that aren't this god forsaken south we live in.

subantz

Aug 11, 2010, 5:01 PM
Post #18 of 19 (7021 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 7, 2007
Posts: 1247

Re: [rock_fencer] using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (1 rating)	Can't Post

rock_fencer wrote:

its not 100 degrees in places that aren't this god forsaken south we live in.

I hates the Humidity. These Southern Summers are plain old suckin. Unless you gots a Kayak to go paddling. Then we have some of the best rivers and creeks ever. If only we could get a few hurricanes.

angeleyes

Aug 16, 2010, 4:08 AM
Post #19 of 19 (6937 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 58

Re: [trenchdigger] Re:using non dry rope on snow [In reply to] Report this Post Average: (0 ratings)	Can't Post

trenchdigger wrote:

And if the couloir is "in", you shouldn't be needing a deadman. Which route? Many of them have options for rock belays as well.

It was the hourglass couloir up to mt dade 40 degrees 1000 ft or so. Didn't end up being able to go, though I did hike in to see how it was. Fairly dry, just had a swath of snow up the center with scree on sides and base/top.

Didn't go up to far as snow, but with the lack of snow at the base the runout was not a nice one. I don't know if we would have belayed up or just kick steps and use axe.

thanks for the replies, that was all helpful.

(This post was edited by angeleyes on Aug 16, 2010, 4:09 AM)

Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Alpine & Ice

Search for (options)

Log In:

Lost Password?

Rock Climbing