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deljes30


Jul 27, 2010, 8:01 PM
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New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s
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So I just started climbing about 3 weeks ago and and go 2-3 times per week. When I first started I could barely make it up the easiest well. Now I can feel myself getting stronger and have nailed every 5.6 at VE and many of the 5.7s. I thought this was average for only having climbed 3 weeks, and being short (5'4). I guess I'm wondering what is normal when a person starts climbing? I've been getting a lot of heat from one of the instructors here about how anyone should be able to do a 5.7 easily. I'm confused. Any tips?


cruxstacean


Jul 27, 2010, 8:04 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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You're doing fine, if you stick with it you will improve a ton in 6 months. The instructor is a jerk, lots of people would not be able to do 5.7 easily... Smile


davidnn5


Jul 27, 2010, 8:22 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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The simple answer is there's no normal progression and your instructor is a douchebag.

For tips: have fun climbing, ignore the numbers as much as you can, and be careful of your fingers, they're breakable. And tell your instructor he's a douche. Angelic


billl7


Jul 27, 2010, 8:22 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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Yep - he's being a jerk or has an odd sense of striking up a conversation.

For five years I've participated in an outdoor climbing school who's representative student has never climbed. The school has about 25 students each year. About half who have never climbed start at 5.6 and the other half at 5.7. Each year there are a few exceptions who can climb harder than 5.7.

Bill L


blueskypatti


Jul 27, 2010, 8:32 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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Go at your own speed....enjoy ...climb for fun and enjoy the mistakes, the great climbs and solving your own problems......don't listen to the climbing "gods" .....every sport has them. GOT FOR IT!!!! It doesn't matter the number ....does it really????? *(**&^&&^@@y***&* them.

enjoy
Blue Skies
Patti


rangerrob


Jul 28, 2010, 7:52 AM
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Re: [blueskypatti] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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By instructor do you mean climbing guide? I'm impressed if you have the money to pay for a climbing guide everytime you go out climbing. He sounds like an idiot though. Dump him and find another guide, or hook up with someone more experienced than yourself at the cliff. Enjoy!


marc801


Jul 28, 2010, 8:55 AM
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Re: [rangerrob] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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rangerrob wrote:
By instructor do you mean climbing guide? I'm impressed if you have the money to pay for a climbing guide everytime you go out climbing.
I think the OP is talking about a gym program with instruction. He mentions "every 5.6 at VE". There's a gym chain called Vertical Endeavors, with locations in St. Paul MN, Duluth MN, and Warrenville IL.


darkgift06


Jul 28, 2010, 9:03 AM
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Re: [rangerrob] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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until a few weeks ago when I took my dad & younger sister out, I probably also would have been that jerk. but after watching them struggle on a 5.6 I have changed my mind set.


patmay81


Jul 28, 2010, 9:07 AM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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Just climb. I still really like jumping on some long 5.6/7 trad climbs from time to time. Grades are great for those who really want to push their limits, other wise forget the numbers.


rangerrob


Jul 28, 2010, 4:28 PM
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Re: [marc801] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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Aaah...yeah that makes better sense. I always forget about those indoor climbing wall things.


bill413


Jul 28, 2010, 5:49 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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deljes30 wrote:
So I just started climbing about 3 weeks ago and and go 2-3 times per week. When I first started I could barely make it up the easiest well. Now I can feel myself getting stronger and have nailed every 5.6 at VE and many of the 5.7s. I thought this was average for only having climbed 3 weeks, and being short (5'4). I guess I'm wondering what is normal when a person starts climbing? I've been getting a lot of heat from one of the instructors here about how anyone should be able to do a 5.7 easily. I'm confused. Any tips?

BITD's of yore, 5.7 was a fairly high level. So, I think that having done all the gym's 5.6's (assuming there are more than 2) and most of the 5.7's (again, assuming there are multiple) is good for only 3 weeks.

Now-a-days, people tend to climb at harder numeric levels, but 5.7 in 3 weeks is still excellent, especially as you sound confident about tackling any gym 6.

Of course, if you aren't climbing 5.9 by the end of next week....

Seriously - enjoy it at your own pace. Pace your development by how you feel and by what you want to tackle. Someone who belittles you for climbing at whatever level is probably not a good teacher.


rangerrob


Jul 28, 2010, 9:36 PM
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Re: [bill413] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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Just remember, there is zero correlation between gym grades and grades on real rock. If you think you'll be able to pull down on any 5.7 outside just because you can do all the 5.7's in your gym....you're going to be in for a let down.

RR


TarHeelEMT


Jul 28, 2010, 10:22 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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deljes30 wrote:
So I just started climbing about 3 weeks ago and and go 2-3 times per week. When I first started I could barely make it up the easiest well. Now I can feel myself getting stronger and have nailed every 5.6 at VE and many of the 5.7s. I thought this was average for only having climbed 3 weeks, and being short (5'4). I guess I'm wondering what is normal when a person starts climbing? I've been getting a lot of heat from one of the instructors here about how anyone should be able to do a 5.7 easily. I'm confused. Any tips?

There are two possibilities:
1) Your instructor is a douchebag,
2) Your instructor is a douchebag who instructs in a gym where the route ratings are absurdly inflated

Either way, your instructor is a douchebag.


kriso9tails


Jul 28, 2010, 11:31 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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Three weeks isn't very long. Years ago I worked with a lot of people who were climbing for the first time in their life. Some struggled up 5.4, and some could finish 5.8s. I give that grade range accounting for slightly soft grading at that gym.

Many people can do 5.7s in gyms easily when they start, but very few can do them smoothly. What I'm getting at is, other new climbers may be pulling down slightly harder grades, but most of them still have zero technique, so I'm hard pressed to really consider them better climbers in any significant way.

Enjoy yourself climbing, focus on learning to climb with good technique and decent style, and don't think too hard on grades until you either feel you are getting the fundamentals of climbing movement down or you feel like you aren't being challenged enough.

Also, I've met some pretty strong climbers who are around 5'4.


kriso9tails


Jul 28, 2010, 11:42 PM
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Re: [kriso9tails] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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I will also point out that pushing grades is not an integral part of the sport for every individual. It's quite possible to just enjoy climbing for the sake of climbing.


(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Jul 28, 2010, 11:44 PM)


whatdisability


Jul 30, 2010, 1:03 AM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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I was warned when I started climbing that all the rankings below 5.10 are bogus, not because of inflation or deflation, but because by far, most people who set courses climb at a much higher level, and the easier courses just sort of blend into each other. Although, to be fair, that instructor sounds like a jerk.

The first day I went climbing, I climbed a 5.7 with some difficulty and a 5.6 with an enormous amount of difficulty, including repeated and ignored pleas to my belayer to let me down. After 3 weeks of going to the gym 2-3 times a week, I could climb most 5.7s as well as that killer 5.6. I went to a gym in a different town and could climb 5.9s there, and when I came back, I found I could climb some 5.8s and 5.9s at my local gym, courses I was afraid to try earlier due to their rankings.

The point of this is not to brag about how much I've advanced or to evaluate how much you have. The point is that the rankings are not standardized, and your progress in the rankings at any particular gym probably doesn't indicate much about your innate rock climbing talent or how good you can get with more work. I haven't been doing this very long (5 weeks minus 1 in the middle when I was traveling), but my advice is to not take the rankings as anything more than a very general guide. Good luck!


jbro_135


Jul 30, 2010, 6:07 AM
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Re: [whatdisability] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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courses


swoopee


Jul 30, 2010, 8:08 AM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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After 35 years of climbing I consider myself to be a good strong 5.5 climber, so you've got me beat. Keep climbing, have fun, and don't worry about it.


desertwanderer81


Jul 31, 2010, 2:21 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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deljes30 wrote:
So I just started climbing about 3 weeks ago and and go 2-3 times per week. When I first started I could barely make it up the easiest well. Now I can feel myself getting stronger and have nailed every 5.6 at VE and many of the 5.7s. I thought this was average for only having climbed 3 weeks, and being short (5'4). I guess I'm wondering what is normal when a person starts climbing? I've been getting a lot of heat from one of the instructors here about how anyone should be able to do a 5.7 easily. I'm confused. Any tips?

All grades are relative. I took a friend on her first outdoor climbing and she nearly freaked out doing some 5.6 OW/slab climbing in Toulumne but later destroyed a 5.8 vertical face climb only to later on succumb to the 5.6 crack/LB on Lambert dome. Different types of climbing require that you learn different techniques.

The bottom line is that we all have a different learning curve at the bottom. Some people will be climbing 10's their first day, other people will be struggling up and freaking out on 6's. It's all about what you enjoy doing. Just climb and enjoy yourself and you'll get stronger/get better technique as time passes! It sounds to me as if you're progressing very nicely though and the guy was a bit of a douche ;)

My personal definition of a 5.7 though is a climb which anyone who is moderately in shape and who isn't scared stiff should be able to do with a little bit of trouble on their first time out. Obviously this is not true for everywhere (like the gunks or specific techniques like crack climbing) but that is what I consider a 5.7 to be.

5.6's should be fairly easy for any beginner.
5.8's should be doable clean for beginners who are in very good shape and are very bold or the average person after 5 or 6 trips out.
5.9's should be doable clean for beginners who are only in the very best shape/complete naturals, people who are in very good shape/head after 5 or 6 trips, or the average person after 20 or so climbing trips.

That's how *I* personally rate outdoors climbing, this has absolutely no bearing on how your gym rates climbs :)

Oh, and FYI, indoor climbing tends to be a LOT more physical than outdoor climbing.


dagibbs


Aug 3, 2010, 12:56 PM
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Re: [desertwanderer81] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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desertwanderer81 wrote:
My personal definition of a 5.7 though is a climb which anyone who is moderately in shape and who isn't scared stiff should be able to do with a little bit of trouble on their first time out. Obviously this is not true for everywhere (like the gunks or specific techniques like crack climbing) but that is what I consider a 5.7 to be.

5.6's should be fairly easy for any beginner.
5.8's should be doable clean for beginners who are in very good shape and are very bold or the average person after 5 or 6 trips out.
5.9's should be doable clean for beginners who are only in the very best shape/complete naturals, people who are in very good shape/head after 5 or 6 trips, or the average person after 20 or so climbing trips.

Wow! The grades sure are soft out where you climb. For the rock around here, I'd knock about 3 -4 grades off what you suggested -- that is, I'd expect a 5.2 to be easy for any beginner, and a 5.3 to be a bit of trouble, but doable. Thinking of a couple local 5.6s -- one has a thin and technical slab section, another is an off-width crack. On neither would a beginner have any hope.

(Here being the Gatineaus, outside Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.)


spikeddem


Aug 3, 2010, 1:18 PM
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Re: [dagibbs] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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dagibbs wrote:
desertwanderer81 wrote:
My personal definition of a 5.7 though is a climb which anyone who is moderately in shape and who isn't scared stiff should be able to do with a little bit of trouble on their first time out. Obviously this is not true for everywhere (like the gunks or specific techniques like crack climbing) but that is what I consider a 5.7 to be.

5.6's should be fairly easy for any beginner.
5.8's should be doable clean for beginners who are in very good shape and are very bold or the average person after 5 or 6 trips out.
5.9's should be doable clean for beginners who are only in the very best shape/complete naturals, people who are in very good shape/head after 5 or 6 trips, or the average person after 20 or so climbing trips.

Wow! The grades sure are soft out where you climb. For the rock around here, I'd knock about 3 -4 grades off what you suggested -- that is, I'd expect a 5.2 to be easy for any beginner, and a 5.3 to be a bit of trouble, but doable. Thinking of a couple local 5.6s -- one has a thin and technical slab section, another is an off-width crack. On neither would a beginner have any hope.

(Here being the Gatineaus, outside Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.)

I don't know if it makes any difference to you, dagibbs, but the first poster is likely saying that these people could hangdog their way up those routes, not necessarily climb cleanly on their first try.


dagibbs


Aug 3, 2010, 1:32 PM
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Re: [spikeddem] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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spikeddem wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
desertwanderer81 wrote:
My personal definition of a 5.7 though is a climb which anyone who is moderately in shape and who isn't scared stiff should be able to do with a little bit of trouble on their first time out. Obviously this is not true for everywhere (like the gunks or specific techniques like crack climbing) but that is what I consider a 5.7 to be.

5.6's should be fairly easy for any beginner.
5.8's should be doable clean for beginners who are in very good shape and are very bold or the average person after 5 or 6 trips out.
5.9's should be doable clean for beginners who are only in the very best shape/complete naturals, people who are in very good shape/head after 5 or 6 trips, or the average person after 20 or so climbing trips.

Wow! The grades sure are soft out where you climb. For the rock around here, I'd knock about 3 -4 grades off what you suggested -- that is, I'd expect a 5.2 to be easy for any beginner, and a 5.3 to be a bit of trouble, but doable. Thinking of a couple local 5.6s -- one has a thin and technical slab section, another is an off-width crack. On neither would a beginner have any hope.

(Here being the Gatineaus, outside Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.)

I don't know if it makes any difference to you, dagibbs, but the first poster is likely saying that these people could hangdog their way up those routes, not necessarily climb cleanly on their first try.

I wasn't thinking climb cleanly either. I've taken new, or nearly new, climbers out on some of these climbs. A couple of the 5.3s I'm thinking of are about 25m (80') long single-pitch, and I've found a moderate beginner, with encouragement and a couple rests on the rope can usually make it up those climbs. I've also had moderately in-shape people fail to get the opening moves on 5.3s around here.


gblauer
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Aug 3, 2010, 1:52 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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If you think climbing is just about the grades, you have much to learn.

Like:
Rope management
Anchors
Gear
Lead climbing
Safety
Self rescue

To name a few. There is so MUCH more to climbing than just climbing. (If you intend to climb outdoors)


roc_doc


Aug 3, 2010, 1:56 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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I'm also brand new - my first post, yay!
I am a pretty athletic guy, have done a couple of intense sports competitively, I was all macho talk before hitting the wall, and once I did I barely struggled up a 5.6. So yeah, you can chill... I wasn't sure what hurt more that first day, my ego or my forearms... You'll be fine... Just enjoy, this sport is awesome and a ton of fun.


namascar


Aug 3, 2010, 2:07 PM
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Re: [deljes30] New climber- 5.6s and 5.7s [In reply to]
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Two most important things in climbing

1) Have fun
2) Look good

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