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aspenshayn
Sep 1, 2010, 4:18 PM
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vegastradguy
Sep 1, 2010, 4:20 PM
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Most spools are spliced together, and are usually marked as such, most shops will make sure you don't get the splice, but its up to you to make sure that the splice isn't in the webbing you're using- basically check your webbing as you would any other piece of gear.
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aspenshayn
Sep 1, 2010, 4:24 PM
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Thanks Vegas. In your opinion when you go in and ask for 25' of webbing and it is spliced, should the retailer point that out to you?
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cfnubbler
Sep 1, 2010, 4:28 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: Thanks Vegas. In your opinion when you go in and ask for 25' of webbing and it is spliced, should the retailer point that out to you?
The splices are always (in my experience) marked with tape, and I think it's my responsibility to want to know what's under that tape. It would be nice if the shop pointed out the splice, but at the end of the day, I'm responsible for myself and my equipment.
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gmggg
Sep 1, 2010, 4:44 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: Thanks Vegas. In your opinion when you go in and ask for 25' of webbing and it is spliced, should the retailer point that out to you?
Unless it was in a shop that sold nothing but climbing gear I would be highly surprised if management and/or employees even knew what a splice was.
The climber who ties the webbing is responsible for selecting their materials, their knots, and their use.
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xtrmecat
Sep 1, 2010, 4:58 PM
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gmggg wrote: aspenshayn wrote: Thanks Vegas. In your opinion when you go in and ask for 25' of webbing and it is spliced, should the retailer point that out to you? Unless it was in a shop that sold nothing but climbing gear I would be highly surprised if management and/or employees even knew what a splice was. The climber who ties the webbing is responsible for selecting their materials, their knots, and their use.
Agree with these statement entirely. Anyone climbing, or using the gear should be responsible for their own safety and inspect their gear with each use. Not knowing what you are doing and using seems to be a common denominator with near misses and mishaps I have been seeing lately.
Bob
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aspenshayn
Sep 1, 2010, 5:05 PM
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gmggg
Sep 1, 2010, 5:36 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: Thanks for the feedback. in the most recent instance, it was a novice climber who purchased from a mountaineering shop. Another question would be: With the number of deaths and accidents due to tape connecting spliced webbing, would it be that hard and that much more expensive for the manufacturer to sell complete spools with no splices? is it not worth it to spend a few bucks more to save some lives. I would think to save one life it would be worth it. I'm just looking for feedback as to what you all think. Do I think you should double check all equipment, and question a piece of tape on your webbing. Yes. But there are a million different things a novice could think that tape is. a marker for something like the type of webbing, a ten foot mark, a middle mark. And also, has anyone heard of any accidents directly related to webbing splices?
I never have heard of an accident resulting from a splice.
Even in a "mountaineering shop" I don't think you would have a reasonable expectation of expert advice. It doesn't matter if a novice suspects the tape of being a million things or a million in one it's their job to research and discover what one thing it is.
I don't think your suit will hold water...
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aspenshayn
Sep 1, 2010, 5:43 PM
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Thanks for your reply. It's not a suit, just a concern after reading other threads and knowing about a death and an accident in colorado directly related to this situation.
Again, Thanks for the input. I am a climber myself and am concerned with all accidents and better education myself and others.
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marc801
Sep 1, 2010, 5:46 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: Thanks for the feedback. in the most recent instance, it was a novice climber who purchased from a mountaineering shop. Another question would be: With the number of deaths and accidents due to tape connecting spliced webbing, would it be that hard and that much more expensive for the manufacturer to sell complete spools with no splices? is it not worth it to spend a few bucks more to save some lives. I would think to save one life it would be worth it. I'm just looking for feedback as to what you all think. Do I think you should double check all equipment, and question a piece of tape on your webbing. Yes. But there are a million different things a novice could think that tape is. a marker for something like the type of webbing, a ten foot mark, a middle mark. And also, has anyone heard of any accidents directly related to webbing splices?
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aspenshayn
Sep 1, 2010, 5:48 PM
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that would be irrelavent
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marc801
Sep 1, 2010, 6:11 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: that would be irrelavent
aspenshayn wrote: Thanks for your reply. It's not a suit, just a concern after reading other threads and knowing about a death and an accident in colorado directly related to this situation. Again, Thanks for the input. I am a climber myself and am concerned with all accidents and better education myself and others.
,,,and has all the earmarks of a class action fishing expedition.
I don't care if that is indeed what you're doing. It's the possible misrepresentation that kinda sucks.
What's the difference between a dead lawyer in the road and a dead skunk in the road?
There are skid marks in front of the skunk.
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drector
Sep 1, 2010, 6:19 PM
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.1 deaths per year, meaning 1 death every ten years, is so extraordinary as to not warrant any special action on the part of the climbing community or any community. From a "saving lives" perspective, which is what is suggested here , those deaths are meaningless (to the society).
As a society, we would be better off worrying about things that cause thousands or tens of thousands of deaths a year. The fact is, people will just fall over dead for no apparent reason more often than being killed because of a webbing splice.
If this is about a lawsuit, it seems like a bad case since there are large numbers of climbers who do not die from this. Maybe that's because they never get splices but in that case, no shop or manufacturer could anticipate or justify dealing with the splices. My opinion is that worrying about tiny stuff that seldom hurts anyone will just add to the noise in life and to the expense of it too. Does someone check your toilet paper for poison before selling it to you? More importantly, would you want to pay for that check? I sure don't.
Dave
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spikeddem
Sep 1, 2010, 6:23 PM
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marc801 wrote: aspenshayn wrote: Thanks for the feedback. in the most recent instance, it was a novice climber who purchased from a mountaineering shop. Another question would be: With the number of deaths and accidents due to tape connecting spliced webbing, would it be that hard and that much more expensive for the manufacturer to sell complete spools with no splices? is it not worth it to spend a few bucks more to save some lives. I would think to save one life it would be worth it. I'm just looking for feedback as to what you all think. Do I think you should double check all equipment, and question a piece of tape on your webbing. Yes. But there are a million different things a novice could think that tape is. a marker for something like the type of webbing, a ten foot mark, a middle mark. And also, has anyone heard of any accidents directly related to webbing splices?What law firm do you work for?
These bolded sections...am I missing something???
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clc
Sep 1, 2010, 6:27 PM
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Marc,
Nice, lawyer jokes are always funny
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hyhuu
Sep 1, 2010, 6:30 PM
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On a separate note, when I ask for a 20 ft of webbing, I expect the shop to give me ONE piece of webbing 20 ft long, NOT 20ft combined of 2 pieces of webbing that have been spliced together. Unfortunately the latter seems to happen once in a in a while.
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aspenshayn
Sep 1, 2010, 6:34 PM
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gmggg
Sep 1, 2010, 6:40 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: I do work in a law firm, not as a lawyer. there is no suit. A girl I know fell due to a splice in the webbing concealed by tape. The tape/splice gave way and she fell resulting in major injuries. I just wanted to know if this was happening more than the instance in 1996, 2000, 2003 and 2009 that I know of already. As far as the dime a dozen dead lawyer joke. That's fine, but remember there are the good and the bad jsut like any profession. But they are the reason you have the rights you do today and many good things have come from just 1 concerned lawyer.
Where are the bad EMTs? The bad nurses? The bad NGO aid workers?
You need to work on tightening up that language if you hope to be a lawyer one day son.
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billcoe_
Sep 1, 2010, 6:42 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: I do work in a law firm, not as a lawyer. there is no suit. A girl I know fell due to a splice in the webbing concealed by tape. The tape/splice gave way and she fell resulting in major injuries. I just wanted to know if this was happening more than the instance in 1996, 2000, 2003 and 2009 that I know of already. As far as the dime a dozen dead lawyer joke. That's fine, but remember there are the good and the bad just like any profession. But they are the reason you have the rights you do today and many good things have come from just 1 concerned lawyer.
Lawyers, through their ambulance chasing opportunistic litigation, are also responsible for our gradual loss of freedoms as well.
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aspenshayn
Sep 1, 2010, 6:43 PM
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Bad EMT's put people in dumpsters in inner city Detroit. Bad Nurses inject patients with disease, Bad NGO workers steal and conceal.
Come on, Really. I'm just here for some input. Some honest input.
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aspenshayn
Sep 1, 2010, 6:45 PM
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Wow, this has gone way off topic and Ididn't mean to start anything like this here.
I need to step away from this.
Good luck and Good climbing to you all.
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moose_droppings
Sep 1, 2010, 7:03 PM
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Dang, missed the original post quote there.
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gmggg
Sep 1, 2010, 7:13 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: Bad EMT's put people in dumpsters in inner city Detroit. Bad Nurses inject patients with disease, Bad NGO workers steal and conceal. Come on, Really. I'm just here for some input. Some honest input.
But that means that they are all acting outside of the purview of their respective professions; and criminally. Only occasionally does a bad lawyer act criminally, and quite a few frivolities and harms are caused by practice of the profession.
Anyway, good luck to your friend.
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micklevin
Sep 1, 2010, 7:17 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: I just wanted to know if this was happening more than the instance in 1996, 2000, 2003 and 2009 that I know of already.
Could you provide accident reports for the aforementioned casualties? I'd be very interested in learning the details. The likelihood of a redundant anchor failing because of more than one "webbing splice" seems to me to border on impossible.
Google only found this accident from 2000 for me, which was caused by complete and utter incompetence of the parties involved and unfortunately cost someone their life.
As an aside, since when is "used masking tape" synonymous with "spliced"?
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mojomonkey
Sep 1, 2010, 7:17 PM
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aspenshayn wrote: I would like to hear from anyone who has had an experience with receiving spliced webbing held together with tape or knows or read about anyone who has. Anything from your personal purchase, accidents you may have witnessed or even heard about. There was a death in Boulder Colorado in 2000, a serious accident in Aspen, Colorado in 2009. I'm looking for anything or even just your thoughts regarding splicing spools together in general. Who's Some questions to follow, but I wanted to get a thread initiated. Thanks in advanced for any responses.
So do you have links on these accidents? More detail? I've never heard of such accidents before. If I asked for "X feet of webbing" from a shop, and they handed me anything other than one contiguous piece, I would have them cut another piece.
I'm surprised more than one shop has sold spliced webbing without comment, and more than one climber receiving it didn't notice and question the splice before using it.
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