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talons05
Nov 12, 2001, 8:10 PM
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What do y'all do with a piece of pro that you've fallen on? How can you be sure it's still safe? Do you just toss it? Take it to have it x-rayed (don't laugh, i've heard of it)... AW
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addiroids
Nov 12, 2001, 9:11 PM
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If it is a nut, it is probably good. Just get out the large hex and a nut tool, and pound the sucker out. Nuts are very resilient. Unlike gonads which may either be damaged, or severely wither after a fall preventing the climber from re-ascending the difficult section. Cams may need a little more inspection. Look at the stem to see if it is bent dramatically, or if the operation isn't perfect. Also see if the trigger wires are frayed. This is not for safety, but if they break, you may not be able to retrieve it if you don't know some tricks. Biners may be loaded over an edge too. Check for proper operation of the gate. Other than that, happy sailings. TRADitionally yours, Addiroids
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jds100
Nov 12, 2001, 11:00 PM
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Yeah, basically, the gear is made for its intended use. Do a regular check before packing for the trip/day, etc., looking for fraying of wires on nuts and hexes, and worn cord on strung gear. The companies that make cams generally offer re-slinging and repair service. Be wary of the piece that you may have to bend back to its correct position (whether it's a cam or a wired nut), because bending will make a weak spot in the wire. Other than micro-sized gear, this stuff is rated to exceed the loads it's likely to recieve in a leader fall. (Micros are more for aid climbing, and for psychological placements: "might not hold a fall, but it makes me feel better.") I believe I've read that the climbing gear industry has a far superior record of proven quality than other manufacturing industries; that's a good thing, but it doesn't seem too surprising considering the quality of most climbers. These companies seem to really care. [ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2001-11-12 15:02 ]
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talons05
Nov 13, 2001, 12:23 AM
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Ok. I've heard that microscopic cracks can develop in gear, anyone have any opinions or facts on this? AW:wave:
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rrrADAM
Nov 13, 2001, 12:55 AM
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I'm trained in metallurgy. Stress or fatigue cracks usually develope in materials that are cyclically stressed. The occasional fall on gear does no harm, as stated, "it is intended for this use." This also happens in hard metals, aluminum is a soft metal. Stainless steel also is resistant to fatigue cracking, more so that harder metals like Chrome, Molebnium, and other metals added to steel to make hard metal alloys. In other words, your gear is fine.
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addiroids
Nov 13, 2001, 4:08 AM
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To re-iterate what the dude above said about bending stuff back...Don't do it because it can produce a weaker spot in the wire than is already there. While it may suck to have bent nuts, sometimes it may help... My girlfriend was following me on a route on Tahquitz, and she said she couldn't clean a piece even with using the nut tool. She arrived at the belay, and I rapped down with her counterweighting the rap with me on belay to climb back up. When I got to the placement, I saw one of my wonderful HB Offsets (#7) with the wire sticking out at a 45 degree angle. I took out the nut tool and cleaned it with a quick tap. As I climbed back up and asked why it was so jacked up. Apparently she thought the nut tool was to help you FUNK the gear out (but not in the way you do it on the axel of a stuck cam) by helping you pull on the sling. When we got back down, I proceeded to give her a very kind and loving 30 minute lesson on cleaning gear. She is a great girl and loves crack climbing, but I just hadn't taught her everything she needed to be an effective second. Now she knows. TRADitionally yours, Addiroids
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talons05
Nov 13, 2001, 4:20 AM
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Haha, cool. Hey rradam, that's a big relief. What about stuff that gets dropped, like if you accidentally drop an atc or something on a rock or concrete... AW
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wachy
Nov 13, 2001, 5:02 AM
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I'm kinda curious about that too. Lots of people say that if you drop a biner, you shouldn't use it. But they're not trained metalurologists . Personally, I think that the things would be fine, even if they're dropped from a significant height, but then again, better safe than sorry.
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rrrADAM
Nov 15, 2001, 8:35 AM
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A drop alone is not generally going to cause a crack, aluminum is too soft. However, when it lands on something sharp, it can cause a 'stress riser'. This is the point at which a stress or fatigue crack will propogate. Try holding a dollar bill or piece or paper and pulling from both sides, the paper is pretty strong. But if you put just the tiniest of tears in the paper transverse to the direction of pull, it will fail easily. So to quote 'wachy', "better safe than sorry." A biner is worth a few bucks. For an ATC, it does not see the dynamic forces that a biner does, therefore I would use it after close inspection.
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