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narcolepticpug
Sep 21, 2010, 3:03 AM
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i have a PETZL Nomad Dry Climbing Rope, 9.8 mm x 60 m, And i was wondering how long it will last me.
and yes i looked on the search and couldnt fine anything on it
is it true you have to replace it after 7-10 falls
(This post was edited by narcolepticpug on Sep 21, 2010, 3:33 AM)
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jbro_135
Sep 21, 2010, 3:37 AM
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until it's worn out
edit: serious reply - exactly two years
(This post was edited by jbro_135 on Sep 21, 2010, 3:38 AM)
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vegastradguy
Sep 21, 2010, 4:21 AM
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if you're asking about this, im assuming its your first rope.
since its under 10.2, i'd guess less than a year with regular weekend use, but as mentioned already- until its worn out is really the best answer.
in reply to the number of falls- a rope can sustain hundreds of regular falls- the 7-10 number is a controlled fall that the UIAA conducts that reflects one of the most severe falls possible.
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JAB
Sep 21, 2010, 6:05 AM
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vegastradguy wrote: in reply to the number of falls- a rope can sustain hundreds of regular falls- the 7-10 number is a controlled fall that the UIAA conducts that reflects one of the most severe falls possible.
And they do those falls in rapid succession. So even if you took one of these factor 2 falls every week, your rope would last much more than 7 falls.
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billcoe_
Sep 21, 2010, 1:47 PM
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narcolepticpug wrote: i have a PETZL Nomad Dry Climbing Rope, 9.8 mm x 60 m, And i was wondering how long it will last me. and yes i looked on the search and couldnt fine anything on it is it true you have to replace it after 7-10 falls
Some Petzls have fallen apart within a few days and you must retire after 2-8 days of use. You can do a search on shit ropes and it should come up. Also, Petzl totally blowing those new rope owners off too was very memorable.
Everyone else's products, depends on how much you use it and what you do with it. Exclusively toproping will wear it faster. Just leading, slower. Expect 3-6 years but most Mfg say retire in 2-3 of heavy use.
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jomagam
Sep 21, 2010, 2:41 PM
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Adam Ondra goes through 5 ropes a year.
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jomagam
Sep 21, 2010, 2:49 PM
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In reply to: Exclusively toproping will wear it faster. Just leading, slower.
You must be making the assumption that one falls way more on TR than leading. Otherwise TR falls are much more gentle on the rope than lead falls.
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scotty1974
Sep 21, 2010, 3:01 PM
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Your going to hear ALOT of different opinions on this and soft goods in general. The rope manufacturers put out the guidelines on the sites, but I truthfully can't see throwing away softgoods based on those timelines. I'm not going to throw out my ropes every 5+ years because it's been 5 years. I've got alot of ropes and am not very hard on them or use each one for a specific purpose. That's alot of turnover!
I think slings are 2 years (corret me please if I'm wrong), but could you imagine replacing 14 trad draws every couple of years if they are in fine condition?
I personally don't roll over gear that I think is still usuable ie, no core shots, fraying, soft spots etc. If you're really worried make it a top rope.
All that being said, it depends on what type of climber you are. Are you a whipping sporty or a low fall traddy? Your rope WILL lose elasticity the older it gets, so I would recommend not using your oldest rope for repeated 30 footers!
From Spadout...
Even if your rope shows no visible signs of wear, consider these basic guidelines for rope retirement:
- Occasional Use (every other weekend or so) — Replace after three to four years
- Consistent Weekend Climbing — Replace after one to two years
- Sport Climbing — Repeated, short falls can be very hard on a rope. Replace about every six months up to a year.
- Hard Falls — Replace your rope after ANY hard fall. Also replace it if it has flat or soft spots, becomes stiff or shows sheath damage.
- In Doubt? — If you're not sure, replace it!
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Perihelion
Sep 21, 2010, 3:54 PM
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jomagam wrote: In reply to: Exclusively toproping will wear it faster. Just leading, slower. You must be making the assumption that one falls way more on TR than leading. Otherwise TR falls are much more gentle on the rope than lead falls.
Actually, I think he's making the assumption that TR involves a fair bit of lowering and dragging the rope over rock while the rope is under tension, and the net effect is to abraid the sheath. Used that way, the rope will get fuzzy, fat, and develop boogers. Then "It's dead, Jim."
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ptlong2
Sep 21, 2010, 4:04 PM
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Most people do the look-feel-sniff test to decide if their rope is worn out. This does mean that one person's retired rope is another's good rope. It ends up being a matter of how cautious you are, how much money you are willing to spend on ropes, and what kind of climbing you do.
A rope will eventually fail given repeated falls but it doesn't happen in practice. What does happen is that they lose some of their elasticity which means more force on your pro. Experiment has shown that for a typical 10.5mm rope the half life (energy absorption) is about 5000 meters of typical use, climbing or rappelling.
Experimental results of falls to failure as a function of impact force:
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ptlong2
Sep 21, 2010, 4:06 PM
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JAB wrote: vegastradguy wrote: in reply to the number of falls- a rope can sustain hundreds of regular falls- the 7-10 number is a controlled fall that the UIAA conducts that reflects one of the most severe falls possible. And they do those falls in rapid succession. So even if you took one of these factor 2 falls every week, your rope would last much more than 7 falls.
UIAA procedure is for a 5 minute rest between successive drop tests. Does waiting longer help?
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vegastradguy
Sep 21, 2010, 4:13 PM
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JAB wrote: vegastradguy wrote: in reply to the number of falls- a rope can sustain hundreds of regular falls- the 7-10 number is a controlled fall that the UIAA conducts that reflects one of the most severe falls possible. And they do those falls in rapid succession. So even if you took one of these factor 2 falls every week, your rope would last much more than 7 falls.
actually, thats not quite correct. any manufacturer and most climbers will tell you to retire your rope immediately after one such factor 2 fall unless its literally out of the box- mostly because the fall they use in the UIAA lab is just that- in a lab and cannot account for exact condition of your rope. but your point is correct- they do test the rope in rapid succession which doesnt give the rope a chance to recover any of its elasticity- basically the test is designed to give you the user comfort in knowing that the rope will be nigh impossible to break under normal climbing conditions.
scotty1974 wrote: I think slings are 2 years (corret me please if I'm wrong), but could you imagine replacing 14 trad draws every couple of years if they are in fine condition? I personally don't roll over gear that I think is still usuable ie, no core shots, fraying, soft spots etc. If you're really worried make it a top rope.
depends on what kind of slings youre talking about. nylon- sure, no visible fraying, fading, etc, i'll let 'em go up to 5 years. dyneema slings, on the other hand, have some other characteristics that make them a really good idea to retire after 2 years. mostly this is the lack of resistance to uv, as well as the fact that their white color makes fading impossible to see. i definitely change my trad draws every 2 years at the most (sometimes sooner if one year has a BUNCH of days on it)- and i just noticed that my new slings i bought this summer have the date sewn into the tag, which i think is a very nice feature.
as far as ropes go- yeah, if its in good shape, no major fraying, no core shots, no soft spots- keep it in rotation. i know folks who get 5-6 years out of their ropes. i also know people that get 3 months. just depends on how much you climb and what youre doing with your rope.
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dingus
Sep 21, 2010, 4:21 PM
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4 on the wall and one in the pack.
4 ropes on the wall (the pegs on the garage wall, that is) are of increasing age and wear...
As a rope ages its uses evolve from lead rope to TR to haul line to clothes line.
The oldest one I have, a mammut, dates back to the 90s. I was using it regularly for self belayed top roping this year, rap down and climb up, but permo-retired it after dropping a huge rock on it. Its still on the peg though, I'll find some use for it.
Climbing ropes are climbing 'consumables.' Like chalk and parkas, they are consumed. If you stick with it a whole career you might go through 20 or more ropes. I know I have. (has to be more than 20 but I can't strain my one brain cell with that thought just now...)
DMT
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bearbreeder
Sep 21, 2010, 4:57 PM
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depends on the wear on the rope, the lead falls and the age
replace at
-sight of core
-major sheath damage
-~factor 2 fall
-enough smaller lead falls that sections of rope loses stretchiness
-2-3 years max with consistent climbing
bd did some test and older ropes lose quite a bit of strength ... interestingly enough you don't hear off too many people die on older ropes snapping ...
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/journal/climb/qclab/qc-lab-retiring-old-ropes
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ptlong2
Sep 21, 2010, 5:10 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: they do test the rope in rapid succession which doesnt give the rope a chance to recover any of its elasticity
There is a 5 minute rest period between UIAA drops. You are saying zero elasticity is recovered in 5 minutes?
About how long do you think one must wait to regain 90% of the recoverable elasticity for a UIAA fall? How long for a typical "severe" fall with a real climber and belayer?
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jorgegonzalez
Sep 21, 2010, 5:42 PM
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The question I have, which has not been addressed to my satisfaction anywhere, is does a rope lose its vitality from age period, as when it remains in a rope bag in a garage for years, and only comes out and gets used on occasion?
I have twin (or double, who knows) ropes which I have used over the last ten years whenever I do multi-pitch trad climbs. They've been to Taquitz, Yosemite, Red Rocks, Courtright, Needles, etc., and to my memory, have not seen any falls. They have been rappelled on, and last year a friend hung out doing ballet type swings off the wall. I began to cringe at the sight wondering whether it was a good idea.
Visual examination doesn't reveal any major wear, the sheath is not frayed, and there are no flat spots.
I can afford new ropes and am thinking of making a rug out of them now, but the question persists. Are they still viable for leading trad?
(This post was edited by jorgegonzalez on Sep 21, 2010, 5:43 PM)
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bearbreeder
Sep 21, 2010, 5:47 PM
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jorgegonzalez wrote: The question I have, which has not been addressed to my satisfaction anywhere, is does a rope lose its vitality from age period, as when it remains in a rope bag in a garage for years, and only comes out and gets used on occasion? I have twin (or double, who knows) ropes which I have used over the last ten years whenever I do multi-pitch trad climbs. They've been to Taquitz, Yosemite, Red Rocks, Courtright, Needles, etc., and to my memory, have not seen any falls. They have been rappelled on, and last year a friend hung out doing ballet type swings off the wall. I began to cringe at the sight wondering whether it was a good idea. Visual examination doesn't reveal any major wear, the sheath is not frayed, and there are no flat spots. I can afford new ropes and am thinking of making a rug out of them now, but the question persists. Are they still viable for leading trad?
ten years ... id replace em ... thats just me
they might be fine ... are you willing to bet yr life on it for about $300?
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vegastradguy
Sep 21, 2010, 9:05 PM
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ptlong2 wrote: vegastradguy wrote: they do test the rope in rapid succession which doesnt give the rope a chance to recover any of its elasticity There is a 5 minute rest period between UIAA drops. You are saying zero elasticity is recovered in 5 minutes? About how long do you think one must wait to regain 90% of the recoverable elasticity for a UIAA fall? How long for a typical "severe" fall with a real climber and belayer?
Im not saying that at all. I also stand corrected about the time and elasticity portion of my statement. Happy?
The rest of my statement stands, though- its a lab test and shouldn't be considered equivalent to the real world.
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ptlong2
Sep 21, 2010, 10:37 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: Im not saying that at all. I also stand corrected about the time and elasticity portion of my statement. Happy?
I apologize if it sounded like I was trying to "get" you or something. I was honestly hoping you knew the answer and would share it. It has to have been studied and the results published.
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vegastradguy
Sep 21, 2010, 11:32 PM
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ptlong2 wrote: vegastradguy wrote: Im not saying that at all. I also stand corrected about the time and elasticity portion of my statement. Happy? I apologize if it sounded like I was trying to "get" you or something. I was honestly hoping you knew the answer and would share it. It has to have been studied and the results published.
i assumed your use of graphs showed the answer, but im not a rope guy, just a guy who's been to the factory.
sounds like a question for Jim @ sterling.
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ptlong2
Sep 21, 2010, 11:53 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: i assumed your use of graphs showed the answer, but im not a rope guy, just a guy who's been to the factory.
That graph was for a (first drop) max impact of only 3 kN. For UIAA drop tests the recovery might be different. I don't know.
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bradley3297
Sep 22, 2010, 2:11 AM
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Ive seen some very old shotty fixed drawsover 5 years old and ripped halfway through and ive seen those draws hold a very large amount of lead falls.... makes you think. if a sling is rated to 22kn and loses half its strenght its still better than that nut you are falling on thats only 6 kn.
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curt
Sep 22, 2010, 4:41 AM
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ptlong2 wrote: Most people do the look-feel-sniff test to decide if their rope is worn out. This does mean that one person's retired rope is another's good rope. It ends up being a matter of how cautious you are, how much money you are willing to spend on ropes, and what kind of climbing you do. A rope will eventually fail given repeated falls but it doesn't happen in practice. What does happen is that they lose some of their elasticity which means more force on your pro. Experiment has shown that for a typical 10.5mm rope the half life (energy absorption) is about 5000 meters of typical use, climbing or rappelling. Experimental results of falls to failure as a function of impact force:
I don't know about the actual number (i.e. 5000m) but most things I've read also indicate that rope life is a function of use--and not age.
Curt
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breathmint
Sep 22, 2010, 5:56 AM
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I was wondering about this kind of thing after seeing dog leashes made from "recycled" climbing ropes. Would you say an enthusiastic canine stands a chance of breaking one of those, or wearing out a new rope (say by lunging repeatedly and being stopped by it), or is that kind of force not forceful enough?
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donald949
Sep 22, 2010, 11:05 AM
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jorgegonzalez wrote: The question I have, which has not been addressed to my satisfaction anywhere, is does a rope lose its vitality from age period, as when it remains in a rope bag in a garage for years, and only comes out and gets used on occasion? I have twin (or double, who knows) ropes which I have used over the last ten years whenever I do multi-pitch trad climbs. They've been to Taquitz, Yosemite, Red Rocks, Courtright, Needles, etc., and to my memory, have not seen any falls. They have been rappelled on, and last year a friend hung out doing ballet type swings off the wall. I began to cringe at the sight wondering whether it was a good idea. Visual examination doesn't reveal any major wear, the sheath is not frayed, and there are no flat spots. I can afford new ropes and am thinking of making a rug out of them now, but the question persists. Are they still viable for leading trad?
According to this, age in and by itself, doesn't affect ropes. Its the wear. Which usually goes hand in hand, older ropes, used more, worn more.
http://www.caimateriali.org/index.php?id=41
So if you have twins/doubles that are barely used and the sheath is really good shape, then the ropes are probably fine. If your concerned about leading trad. Use them for TR the kids.
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