|
Bats
Nov 11, 2010, 8:47 PM
Post #1 of 14
(3770 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2007
Posts: 486
|
I have a NF Cat's Meow 20 degree and about to froze to death this past weekend when it hit 35F @ Erock. I ended up wrapping my rope tarp around my bag, and was quite comfortable the remainder of the night. I went to a local outfitter (not REI), since they carried Western Mountaineering. The sales clerk was wondering why a 0 bag in Texas. Do you think it would be a good investment to purchase the 0 bag? Anyone has the new Mont Bell bag? Any suggestions?
|
|
|
|
|
justroberto
Nov 11, 2010, 8:58 PM
Post #2 of 14
(3752 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 1876
|
Sounds like a bag problem more than anything. I have a 20d Mountain Hardware something-or-another, and my girlfriend has a 35d women's lamina. When it actually gets cold, I use hers since it keeps me warmer.
|
|
|
|
|
sspssp
Nov 11, 2010, 9:06 PM
Post #3 of 14
(3747 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 1731
|
The temperature ratings on bags are a bit bogus and it depends a little bit on how warm/cold you sleep and what clothing you wear.
The downside of the really cold weather bags is the initial expense and they are heavier and bulkier. Although weight and bulk isn't really an issue for car camping.
I got a -20 (yes, minus 20) bag for car camping in conditions that were not much below freezing. I was tired of being cold and I figured in 5 years when the bag got matted down and was no longer as warm, I would still be fine in sub freezing conditions. 15 years later and the bag still works great for sub freezing conditions (Although I would never consider it for sub zero conditions, let alone -20.)
If you want a bag that you are also going to backpack with, that changes things a lot. But in that case, when car camping, you can add layers and bring a warm blanket (much nicer than a rope tarp).
|
|
|
|
|
xtrmecat
Nov 11, 2010, 9:46 PM
Post #4 of 14
(3720 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548
|
Bats, as stated the ratings are not accurate to temps you will be comfortable in. That said, the NF Cats Meow served me well for about ten years but after repeated stuffsack stuffing lost it's ability to keep me warm in any but the warmest weather.
It can and will happen to any synthetic bag, so don't stuff them tight, and store them in the big bag they come with if not opened all the way up.
I use down for my summer backpacking sack, and my winter mountain bag. One being +20, and the other -20. The synthetic 0 degree bag is for walls, to try to stave off death in weather. Seems to be less than sufficient on Zion midwinter walls, but perfect for May Yosemite weather. Take from this what you will, but I spend a lot of time sleeping "not in a bed", and in all but the hottest of weather I can make a 0 degree bag work.
Burly Bob
|
|
|
|
|
billl7
Nov 11, 2010, 10:29 PM
Post #5 of 14
(3700 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890
|
Are you eating enough food in the evening?
Did a lot of backpacking in cold weather with a marginal bag. I found if I stuffed myself to the gills in the evening I'd be toasty all night (although might have trouble sleeping).
So - I am not recommending absolutely stuffing one's self. But going to bed on a fairly empty stomach would be a factor.
Bill L
|
|
|
|
|
rock_fencer
Nov 11, 2010, 10:37 PM
Post #6 of 14
(3691 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2005
Posts: 752
|
if you check out the europeans website for the gear manufacturer they have an actual comfort rating that better estimates the bag's temp rating than the manufacturer's numbers
Edit: To say that i just checked and couldnt find it anymore. I was refering to the EN13537 guidlines that give an Upper/Comfort/Lower/Extreme temperature rating for a bag using some sort of thermal manikin
T
(This post was edited by rock_fencer on Nov 11, 2010, 11:02 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
Bats
Nov 11, 2010, 11:04 PM
Post #7 of 14
(3670 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2007
Posts: 486
|
I will look into the different websites on the "real" temperature. I heard that most of the temperatures are based on men's cold sensitivity, not women's. I am going to save my pennies, but I think that Western Mountaineering bag my be in my future.
|
|
|
|
|
acorneau
Nov 12, 2010, 1:31 AM
Post #8 of 14
(3608 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
Also remember that the bag's rating assumes that you're wearing some thermals and a hat and you have a good pad beneath you.
I'm usually at Erock the first weekend in December teaching a class and last year it got down to 18 degrees one night. I was comfortable in my 20 degree down bag, but I was wearing long underwear, a hat, and had a 3.5" thick air mattress.
|
|
|
|
|
climbingaggie03
Nov 12, 2010, 2:54 AM
Post #9 of 14
(3589 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 1173
|
Were you in a tent? or sleeping out? sleeping bag ratings assume you're in a tent in addition to all the other things already listed.
I don't think a 0 degree bag is out of the question but it is a worst case scenario bag for TX. Also I think that the rating on a Cats meow bag is bogus, I've seen that bag in stores and it's thin, it looks more like a 32 to 40 degree bag, and I sleep warm.
Sleeping pads make a difference too, for cold weather, I like to use either a closed cell foam under my thermarest prolight 4, or my super deluxe thermarest depending on if I have to carry it or not.
I say go for it, my sister uses a -5 bag in the summer time cause she gets cold in the mountains. It's a bit heavier, but as I'm sure you know, a good nights sleep is worth alot!
|
|
|
|
|
Bats
Nov 12, 2010, 3:17 AM
Post #10 of 14
(3581 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2007
Posts: 486
|
I am in a tent with the fly on. I have the Thermarest Z-lite pad. I have my pink beanie and my thermies on. No socks on my feet at all, I have learned that can mess you over. My feet are alright, since I stuff the bottom of the bag with clothes. At 5'7", I buy the men's 6' bag. It makes me mad that they want to charge me more for a women's long bag and not the men's regular bag. They are the same size, so shouldn't they be the same price. Also I am so used to the zipper on the left side of the bag, women's is always on the right. For some reason when I sleep with the tarp, it keeps the heat in the bag. I would love to do backcountry hikes like in the Tetons next year, so I guess I am looking for a lighter bag as well as warm. I know Wyoming can have a blizzard in the middle of the summer.
|
|
|
|
|
kylethemonkey
Nov 12, 2010, 3:25 AM
Post #11 of 14
(3577 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 21
|
I also usually climb in Texas and was out at Erock this past weekend.
My solution is to get a sleeping pad, a light sleeping bag (35F), a cold sleeping bag (15F), and a small sheet.
With all four of those I'm good for just about any temperature I'll encounter. When it gets really cold I sleep with the 15F bag inside the 35F.
Now if only I could come up with a good way to keep my face and nose warm...
|
|
|
|
|
climbingaggie03
Nov 12, 2010, 4:09 AM
Post #12 of 14
(3560 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 1173
|
you definitely need a different or additional pad for cold weather. a Z-light has an R-value of 2.2, (R-value is the way they measure the amount of insulation something provides) The prolight plus has an R-value of 4.6, and my preferred winter pad (sleeping on snow) has an R-value of 9. So you definitely need more insulation underneath you. Also I'd be leery of stuffing too much around your feet, your feet might stay warm, but I think you could compress the insulation in the bag enough to let heat escape.
Also I think bags come in both right and left zip, you should be able to choose with no price difference and the womens bags are cut/shaped a little differently, and the insulation is concentrated in different areas, it might be worth it to get a womens bag even though you can fit in a mens.
I think tarps are warmer to sleep under than a tent because if pitched right, they provide shelter, but because air circulates, you don't have a build up of condensation in the tent and sleeping bag, which will conduct heat away from your body faster than drier air, and moisture will contribute to loss of loft and warmth in your sleeping bag.
|
|
|
|
|
charley
Nov 12, 2010, 10:33 PM
Post #13 of 14
(3461 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2002
Posts: 6627
|
Some inexpensive ways to help keep you warmer are
blue closed cell foam pad next to ground.
buy or make a fleece bag liner
Eat some chocolate and pee just before bed.
put near boiling water in nalgene, put nalgene in sock and take it to bed with you..
That should help til you get a warmer bag.
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Nov 12, 2010, 11:20 PM
Post #14 of 14
(3445 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
I have the bag you mention and it has kept me warm down to about 20 degrees. any colder than that I start to feel uncomfortable. a couple of things:
1) I use a liner when it gets cold and that adds a few degrees to the bag
2) I've found that putting something in between me and my air mattress helps to keep the cold air that develops in the air mattress from keeping me cold. when car camping, I put a foam thermarest on the ground and my air mattress on top of that. When backpacking, I put a pack towel (one of those easy-to-carry MSR towels) in between me and the mattress.
3) I stuff the foot of the bag with excess clothes and stuff to take out the dead air.
With that said, as everyone has said, temps vary, but there are ways to mitigate that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
