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kickasssoprano
Nov 12, 2010, 5:41 PM
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Me again :)
as I near the end of my first trimester and think about what's to come, I can't help but feel a bit sad that I won't be able to climb much soon...
and this brings me to my point- I've noticed in my gym that lots of couples who've had children seem to have an unfair (in my opinion) division of childcare vs climbing-
I notice that I see lots of new dads continue to climb at the gym while the new moms are home with the new baby and am worried that this may be my fate. The few friends that know I'm pregnant have already began making comments about how they won't ever see me again once the baby is born, but I notice they aren't saying the same thing to my husband. This bugs me for a few reasons, mainly that over the past two years I've been much more into climbing and bouldering than him and tend to be at the gym more than him. I know that having a baby will change my life drastically and that climbing may no longer be a priority, and as an Early Childhood Educator, who spent almost 10 years working with young toddlers (15-24 months) I know I'll be exhausted anyway. I just can't help but feel frustrated, that it seems like raising a baby is my responsibility rather than our responsibility. Am I being a hormonal nightmare? or does this double standard ring true to anyone else?
Thanks for putting up with my rant 
J
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lena_chita
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Nov 12, 2010, 7:19 PM
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Are there double standards in the society in general, and in the climbing community, when it comes to expectations placed on mothers vs. fathers?
Yes, absolutely.
Does it mean that you are bound by the societal expectations to go down that path?
Nope, not at all.
You do what you and your partner decide to do, to the best of your abilities, and make your own flavor of "fairness".
Now is the time to bring it up with your partner. Tell him: this is what I am hearing from so-and-so. It makes me upset because... I want to try and... what do you think... (fill in the blank with your concerns and possible solutions-- and expect that a lot of things will go out of the window anyway, despite best preparation and intention, and that a lot of things will have to be re-decided on the fly... but hey, at least you have the expectations and hopes out in the open to begin with)
A lot of things you simply can't help.
If you nurse-- yeah, your partner can't, and while you can express milk and ask him to give the bottle to the baby, in my experience it is only worth the hassle if you physicly cannot be with the baby at the time the baby needs to eat. I would nurse rather than pump any day.
And yes, you are going to be the one recovering from childbirth, you are going to be the one with hormonal swings, etc. etc.
From what I have seen, even in the most supportive couples that aim at being equal, the division ends up being not 50-50, and often both parties are O.K. with it. Most new mothers climb a lot less than they used to, before having a baby, and a lot less than their partners-- BUT, very often it is because they want it that way, not because their partners are not giving them the opportunity.
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smallclimber
Nov 13, 2010, 2:12 AM
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I "let" my husband go climbing two days outside wihtout me, once right at the end of my pregnancy and once while my family were visiting when baby was a few weeks. I remind him that he owes me two days once I wean her!
While you are on maternity leave, try to go to your indoor gym a few times during the day to boulder once you have recovered from the birth. Chances are your baby will sleep in his car seat or watch you happily for an hour. I can just manage to drive there, do 40-50 mins and drive back inbetween feeds and its an outing for both of us, and she is much happier doing something than just sitting at home. Its quiet in the day and we don't get in anyones way, normally only a couple of other folks there and the staff have no problem with me having her there. Then just watch your husbands face when he comes home from work and rather than saying "I changed nappies all day" you say "I went climbing!"
I have yet to see how things will work out next year when we want to start outside again. We are determined to still go, but I was determined we'd get back outside this year and we have not managed that yet....It's more tiring having a baby than I ever realised!
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kickasssoprano
Nov 13, 2010, 5:44 PM
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Thanks for the advice!
I have spoken to my husband and feel much better, I think the whole thing is getting to me. I've just been noticing the amount of sacrifices that are expected of the mother that are thought of as noble if the father chooses to make such sacrifices (yes I realize a HUGE part of this is hormones).
Smallclimber, thank you for your bouldering suggestion, there is a bouldering gym that I used to frequent before I got pregnant that I was hoping to be able to go to once my baby comes- the owner has two children of his own and I know of at least one mom who brings her (now toddler) to the gym and climbs while she naps. I'm glad to hear that this may indeed be a possibility.
I think part of these feelings come from the fact that my identity is changing, for at least the last 10 years of my life, I've been an athlete (competitive muay thai for 6, casual running for 10+ and climbing and bouldering for about 3)- being an athlete has become a huge part of my identity, I worry about not having this outlet or this aspect of me anymore once baby arrives.
Thank you both for your help- I'm sure you both know what an incredibly exciting, but also a little frightening this life changing event can be 
J
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rightarmbad
Nov 14, 2010, 6:31 AM
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I think Lena hit the nail right on the head.
And your life is changing, that's what is making you antsy, not the thought of missing climbing.
You knew exactly who you were before.
But the good news is, you get to reinvent yourself, cool isn't it?
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nessie
Nov 14, 2010, 11:05 AM
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The gym where I train the most I regularly see moms who bring their kids along in prams. Although these moms aren't yet back in pre pregnant shape they are already back on the wall doing their stuff. They choose the hours that they know not too many people come ie. the mornings but even if there are more people nobody minds, on the contrary alot of people join in to keep an eye on the babies whilst mom is climbing. Once these kids are about 4-5 years old there is a team of regular climbers who give trainingclasses for those kids interested. At times dads bring their kids too. I think it's a question of organizing and having the right set of people around you to help out so that you too can remain true to yourself and your own passions!
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timd
Nov 15, 2010, 12:10 AM
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A fathers job does not end at conception! You deserve a chance to get out too you know. Dads can watch children just like mothers do.
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kickasssoprano
Nov 15, 2010, 6:01 PM
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Clearly you didn't read my original post. The issue here is not bringing your child/ren to the crag, the issue is the double standard that applies to parents, I frankly found your link misogynistic and rude and actually, it proves my point- the blogger wasn't complaining about FATHERS bringing their child/ren to the crag, only mothers. It takes two parents to make a child, and it should be the responsibility of two parents to take care of that child, and that includes BOTH parents having a chance to pursue their interests and passions as well as being good parents. It is naive, hostile and unfair to imply that a parent who still needs some time to themselves is a bad parent.
Something to think about.
Ps: if you're so selfish that you begrudge a parent who's child dares to disturb you by crying, you definitely shouldn't have children- no room for selfishness when you're someones mom or dad.
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iamthewallress
Nov 15, 2010, 7:39 PM
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kickasssoprano wrote: I frankly found your link misogynistic and rude and actually, it proves my point- the blogger wasn't complaining about FATHERS bringing their child/ren to the crag, only mothers.
I thought the article read like a computer program, so maybe I skimmed over the woman-specific part, but all of it that I read referred to gender-neutral parents.
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kickasssoprano
Nov 15, 2010, 10:19 PM
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iamthewallress wrote: kickasssoprano wrote: I frankly found your link misogynistic and rude and actually, it proves my point- the blogger wasn't complaining about FATHERS bringing their child/ren to the crag, only mothers. I thought the article read like a computer program, so In reply to: maybe I skimmed over the woman-specific part, but all of it that I read referred to gender-neutral parents.
From sentence one in the blog...
Your husband tells you not to forget the drop knee, now right hand to the crimp. All of a sudden your darling 10-month old Honeysnookums starts wailing like a banshee dipped in napalm. You. . .
It can be argued that this is directed towards a couple comprised of two males, but somehow I doubt it.
Anyway, the point of the original post as I said earlier is not bringing children to the crag- I would never leave my child unattended under any circumstances- when I do start climbing again post baby, I will either arrange childcare for my child, or have a third join us so that someone is physically with my child at all times- it is the expectation that the MOTHER is expected to give up her sport, while the father can choose whether or not to that I have a problem with- I've already explained my point multiple times throughout the post so I won't get into it again, but I do stand by my opinion that this blog is misogynistic and anti family.
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clee03m
Nov 16, 2010, 4:38 AM
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All the talk about sexism and double standards really had me scared when I was pregnant. My husband kept telling me he is and always be a feminist, but people kept saying, "just wait until you have that baby." Well, happy to report my husband is still a feminist. While breastfeeding is a crap load of work, my husband triest his best to make the work load even. For example, when baby needs a diaper change at night, he changes diapers. When mama needs to sleep in and junior wakes up at 6 in the morning ready to take on the world, daddy takes him to his play room. Double standards may exist in the world, but as long as there is no room for that in your relationship, you will be fine.
Now, that being said, I have not been climbing much, but that has nothing to do with double standards. It has to do with 1. Pumping while climbing sucks. 2. I work way too many hours and don't want to be away from my baby for an extended period of time 3. Thought of bringing baby climbing freaks me out. Rock falls, gear falls, dangerous ledges, oh my. And I am not convinced he would get much out of going climbing with me at this age.
But I have to tell you, during my maternity leave, I went to the gym every day starting at 6 weeks, and felt no regret about taking day trips. It was after I went back to work that I didn't feel I had enough time with Thomas where I didn't want to part with him to go climbing much. So, it is entirely possible to climb a lot depending on how much time you have with your baby on a daily basis and your comfort with craigs and babies.
And at least for me, Thomas has been more fun, more exhilerating, and more rewarding than anything I have experienced.
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hyhuu
Nov 16, 2010, 3:27 PM
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Double standard? I don't think so, at least not in my experience. In most cases, it's just a matter of priorities and mother nature. Nothing you do in climbing can even come close to the experience of the birth of your child. Beside the rocks will always be there. Congratulation!
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caughtinside
Nov 16, 2010, 7:23 PM
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I'd descibe it as more misanthropic than mysoginistic, but we all see what we want to see.
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lhwang
Nov 17, 2010, 12:34 AM
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I didn't think it was misogynistic. It seemed directed at both members of the couple from my reading.
I'm someone who is planning to have children and take them climbing. I have a few friends with kids/babies and have no objections to them bringing their kids along.
To some extent though, reading the article with my Verminator filter on, I have to say I actually agree with the intent of the article. Namely, don't go climbing with just you, your husband and the kid(s). With rare exceptions, this is not a safe situation for anybody involved. I really think one person should always be free to tend to the baby, and in the past that's how we've planned it when my friends decide to bring their baby along.
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j_ung
Nov 17, 2010, 2:55 PM
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kickasssoprano wrote: Clearly you didn't read my original post. The issue here is not bringing your child/ren to the crag, the issue is the double standard that applies to parents, I frankly found your link misogynistic and rude and actually, it proves my point- the blogger wasn't complaining about FATHERS bringing their child/ren to the crag, only mothers. It takes two parents to make a child, and it should be the responsibility of two parents to take care of that child, and that includes BOTH parents having a chance to pursue their interests and passions as well as being good parents. It is naive, hostile and unfair to imply that a parent who still needs some time to themselves is a bad parent. Something to think about. Ps: if you're so selfish that you begrudge a parent who's child dares to disturb you by crying, you definitely shouldn't have children- no room for selfishness when you're someones mom or dad.
You had me until your post script. A crying baby is very much a safety issue for everybody, including the parents. IMO, the true selfishness of the baby-at-crag debate is failing to recognize that simple, unavoidable fact.
I have absolutely no problem with people bringing babies to the crag. But, the best way to do it -- by far -- is to travel in a party of four (including the baby). That way there is always one person available to assist the child and spare the crag such subjective hazards when necessary.
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kickasssoprano
Nov 17, 2010, 4:39 PM
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I did re read the blog, I do agree that loud noises at the crag are unsafe- I was upset at the hostile tone of the blog especially considering the point of my original post. I have never said that I would put my climbing needs ahead of the safety and well being of my child or my fellow climbers. I don't like when adults are yelling at the crag or when people bring loud music- aside from safety concerns about noise, part of the reason I go climbing outside is to get away from noise and enjoy the quiet of nature.
I think the fact that the blog was posted in response to my post made me more angry than the actual blog. As I said earlier, I would never leave my child alone under any circumstances, and especially not a dangerous environment like a crag
The postscript was an emotional reaction, and given my circumstances, I think you can understand why I'm a bit more emotional than usual.
(This post was edited by kickasssoprano on Nov 17, 2010, 4:42 PM)
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caughtinside
Nov 18, 2010, 5:33 AM
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Of course we understand... You are in a delicate way.
And I'm probably going to hell for trolling pregnant women on the Internet.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Nov 18, 2010, 1:28 PM
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I'll appologize up front for the "soap box" sytle quoting...
kickasssoprano wrote: I think the whole thing is getting to me. I've just been noticing the amount of sacrifices that are expected of the mother that are thought of as noble if the father chooses to make such sacrifices
Expectations are set by others (family, friends, social organizations), how you react to them is your choice.
kickasssoprano wrote: (yes I realize a HUGE part of this is hormones).
Of course it is, the fact that this could be thought of as bad comes from people not in touch with themselves. You are in the middle of the most amazing biological transformation of your life, the amped up hormons help. The "fun" one is when your body will reverse the 9 month process in about two months.
kickasssoprano wrote: I think part of these feelings come from the fact that my identity is changing, for at least the last 10 years of my life, I've been an athlete (competitive muay thai for 6, casual running for 10+ and climbing and bouldering for about 3)- being an athlete has become a huge part of my identity, I worry about not having this outlet or this aspect of me anymore once baby arrives.
Of course your identity is changing, but what your new identity will be is entirely up to you. There is nothing about mom-athlete that doesn't make sense. How else are you going to keep up with the little bastard once she learns how to really run?
I'll take this opportunity to point out how possible this is: My wife (2 kids 9 and 5) is now mid-fourties. She is not just metaphorically in the best shape of her live, but actually there. Weight wise, she ways the same as in high school, but muscle wise she could kick her old self's ass. All of this accomplished while doing our "high-touch" style of parenting. And now she is (re)starting 2 jobs (writer and jewelry).
So, your 'mom' identity can be what you want it to be.
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Kartessa
Nov 18, 2010, 2:26 PM
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Just my $0.02...
It's really up to you how much you climb once the baby comes. I've had some people (especially other parents) give me flack because I take my son to the gym at least twice a week and he has been out to the crag a few times now.
Granted, he's 2 now, and I don't have a husband/partner, but I do have understanding friends and partners who are welcoming to my little climbing buddy. Sure, the days aren't always as fluid as before, and I definitely get less runs in than anyone else, but that's not the point. What's awesome is that while I climb, a friend or two will take him for a walk to check out the flowers, trees, feed chipmunks, do anything to keep him entertained. I even get relieved of some belay duties to tend to my munchkin.
But seriously, once you're ready to take him out, and are comfortable with the risks (the only crag I take him to is known for being so over-climbed and polished you'll be hard pressed to even find loose dirt, much less rock, but he does wear a helmet when he's within 10m of the face) he'll be coming on your crag days. Until then, you can still go to the gym, leave him with your husband or your parents for a "me day" or just live vicariously through your friends until the time is right for you to go back to what you've once enjoyed.
Be patient and relax, your life isn't ending, it's only begining.
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macherry
Nov 27, 2010, 10:45 PM
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sherman speaks the truth...............nobody wants to listen
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cloud9climber
Jan 8, 2011, 11:26 AM
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Okay... so I haven't read the replies but here's my experience. We have a 2 year old. The first year after he was born I did very little climbing outdoors but we brought him to the gym, stuck him in the bouncy seat and we climbed.
We went to shady, SAFE areas when we had time and weather permitted. We climbed with a group and one of us was always with the baby.
Now that our Son is almost 2, he has his own harness and we intend to bring him with us on all of our adventures.
Now I was a little bent out of shape when I was super pregnant (not climbing) and walking around J Tree watching all my friends climb and my Husband still goes away on weekend climbs 2 times a year without me and I'm okay with that. He needs his "lone wolf pack" time and it's cool. We do try to climb together as much as possible. We're climbing twice a week now WITH our Son.
Where's there's a will there is a way. You guys are a team. Make a game plan, communicate and enjoy that baby!
Peace and love.
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klopik
Jul 19, 2011, 6:28 PM
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Well, you will climb a little bit less then your husband. But it will be ok, you will still get to climb quiet a lot!
My husband really pulls his weight with parenting. He is great. We have been taking our baby to the gym since 2 weeks and cragging since about 6 weeks. I also was taking him to get on elliptical or stairclimber since maybe 4 weeks, just put him in an ergo and go at it (great excercise - added resistance :)
Now, when we climbed with hubby, we would always have another climber with us, we did that before baby also - its nice to have 3 people climbing. We would go for a couple of hours, and at the end of the day, hubby would do say 7 routes, and I would only get a chance to do 4, because I would need to breastfeed in the middle. But you know what? Thats ok. I didn't mind. I still don't. And now days, Daddy is the one who takes his big boy to the potty so I get to climb a little bit more...
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klopik
Jul 21, 2011, 11:28 PM
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cloud9climber wrote: Now that our Son is almost 2, he has his own harness and we intend to bring him with us on all of our adventures. Sorry, total off subj - what harness did you get? How do you like it? Would you recommend it? We are going to be shopping for one soon, thats why all the questions :) Ours is only 16 mo now, but we will need one soon, we also intent to sort of use it as a leash for him when we go hiking :)
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cloud9climber
Jul 21, 2011, 11:56 PM
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klopik wrote: cloud9climber wrote: Now that our Son is almost 2, he has his own harness and we intend to bring him with us on all of our adventures. Sorry, total off subj - what harness did you get? How do you like it? Would you recommend it? We are going to be shopping for one soon, thats why all the questions :) Ours is only 16 mo now, but we will need one soon, we also intent to sort of use it as a leash for him when we go hiking :) We got him one from Petzel from REI. Works great!!! Here it is: http://www.rei.com/product/716710/petzl-simba-climbing-harness-kids
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