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coastalclimber
Nov 13, 2010, 5:08 PM
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What's the general consensus on the use of quickdraws, are they only for sport climbing or is it ok to use them for trad? I'm getting ready to buy some gear but can't afford to double up on gear for different types of climbing. What would be the best route to go. I've been climbing now for about 8 months so am not a total beginner.
Thanks,
PHil
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TarHeelEMT
Nov 13, 2010, 5:39 PM
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I use them for both trad and aid - especially for aid, where you're already carrying so much gear that any weight savings are a bonus.
I didn't start using them for trad until I had been leading for well over a year - probably closer to two. It just takes a lot of mileage to get the feel for when extending with a draw would be appropriate versus when it would risk walking a piece out of place. Even though I do it now, I do it only sparingly and with a very long and flexible draw to minimize the transmission of motion to the piece. My draw of choice is the 18cm Quicksilver because of its long, thin, and flexible dogbone.
That said, nylon runners are both cheap and superior to draws for a beginning trad climber, and you can always scavenge the biners from your draws if you don't wnat to double up on gear.
(This post was edited by TarHeelEMT on Nov 13, 2010, 5:40 PM)
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dugl33
Nov 13, 2010, 6:07 PM
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coastalclimber wrote: What's the general consensus on the use of quickdraws, are they only for sport climbing or is it ok to use them for trad? I'm getting ready to buy some gear but can't afford to double up on gear for different types of climbing. What would be the best route to go. I've been climbing now for about 8 months so am not a total beginner. Thanks, PHil
Draws are ok for trad but you'll probably want some full length runners in the mix too. As mentioned by TH_EMT you need to be careful to not walk your pieces.
If the route (and your placements) runs fairly straight draws are fine. If you're careful about it you can even clip cam slings directly. Give nuts a good downward tug to set them, and an outward pull to test that they are going to stay put. It takes a little practice to know the difference between "secure enough not to wiggle out from the rope action" vs. "welded in place and your second spending a half hour struggling to get it out." Until you know the difference, FTS prevails.
...And at some point in your climbing career you will have a stopper go whizzing down the line and all of a sudden you'll be more run out than you would like.
You should also learn to bring your waist / hips in and give the rope a wiggle as you go past pieces with minimal extension -- the goal being to not rotate them up as you move past.
Also, the more you run it out, the less extension you need to not have rope drag, although the gear better be bomber.
So... yes. Use quickdraws for trad. But get some shoulder length runners too to triple up into "trad draws". In a pinch you can string two draws together or combo a draw and a runner.
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cruxstacean
Nov 14, 2010, 4:45 AM
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Climb trad a bit and you will see why you need more than just sport draws for many routes
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esander4
Nov 14, 2010, 5:14 AM
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TarHeelEMT wrote: I use them for both trad and aid - especially for aid, where you're already carrying so much gear that any weight savings are a bonus. I didn't start using them for trad until I had been leading for well over a year - probably closer to two. It just takes a lot of mileage to get the feel for when extending with a draw would be appropriate versus when it would risk walking a piece out of place. Even though I do it now, I do it only sparingly and with a very long and flexible draw to minimize the transmission of motion to the piece. My draw of choice is the 18cm Quicksilver because of its long, thin, and flexible dogbone. That said, nylon runners are both cheap and superior to draws for a beginning trad climber, and you can always scavenge the biners from your draws if you don't wnat to double up on gear.
Do you have an opinion on webbing tied with a water knot as the sling to a trad draw? I haven't tried that approach but I'm guessing it would be close to a trad draw, just with a bulky knot
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TarHeelEMT
Nov 14, 2010, 6:21 AM
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It'll suffice, but you may as well just get 60cm nylon runners. They're cheap.
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qwert
Nov 14, 2010, 10:37 AM
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If you dont yet know wether you will do more trad, or more sport just get a mix of draw styles.
A few tripled "trad draws", a few longer quickdraws, a few slings, a few short quickdraws.
The real short, stiff quickdraws can cause some problems in trad, if you dont really know what you are doing (of course this applies for the other lengths too, their are just a little bit less error prone).
And you can of course use some longer draws and even trad draws for sport too. If the trad draws are tripled, they are just like normal draws (with a minimal wheight and bulk penalty, if you use dynema slings), but come in handy for the ocasioanl misplaced bolt.
For me - no matter if i climb sport, trad, ice or alpine - about half of my sling/qd rack is always the same few draws. The other half i just pick/rebuilt to suit some special needs, should they occur.
qwert
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blueeyedclimber
Nov 14, 2010, 7:29 PM
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coastalclimber wrote: What's the general consensus on the use of quickdraws, are they only for sport climbing or is it ok to use them for trad? I'm getting ready to buy some gear but can't afford to double up on gear for different types of climbing. What would be the best route to go. I've been climbing now for about 8 months so am not a total beginner. Thanks, PHil
First, you ARE a beginner, so don't try to tell people otherwise. There's nothing wrong with that, but the most dangerous climber is the n00b who tries to hide the fact that they are a n00b.
Second, Trad draws (I still hate that term) ARE more versatile but if you are anticipating doing a lot of sport climbing to start, maybe go with a rack of sport draws and slowly add more slings and biners as $ permits.
The thing to remember with trad is that you want your line running as straight as possible and to sling appropriately. Sometimes that means extending a tripled runner, sometimes a sport draw will suffice, and sometimes you can clip direct to a cam.
Good luck.
Josh
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Colinhoglund
Nov 15, 2010, 1:47 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: First, you ARE a beginner, so don't try to tell people otherwise. There's nothing wrong with that, but the most dangerous climber is the n00b who tries to hide the fact that they are a n00b. Second, Trad draws (I still hate that term) ARE more versatile but if you are anticipating doing a lot of sport climbing to start, maybe go with a rack of sport draws and slowly add more slings and biners as $ permits. The thing to remember with trad is that you want your line running as straight as possible and to sling appropriately. Sometimes that means extending a tripled runner, sometimes a sport draw will suffice, and sometimes you can clip direct to a cam. Good luck. Josh
1+
You can always cannibalize your draws and buy some runners later and make "trad draws" (hate the term too) AKA slings later.
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tedman
Nov 15, 2010, 8:19 PM
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also for cams you can use the 'ol single biner on a double sling carried over your shoulder. Clip the sling to the cam biner, then the free biner to the rope. Saves you a biner over using trad draws or quickdraws for extending cams.
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jcrew
Nov 15, 2010, 8:30 PM
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coastal, you've only been at it 8 months so:
are you seeing yourself as more of a trad., ice-type guy who goes sport climbing when you need to rest your nerves? if so, then why not buy 10 60cm sewn slings and triple them up for sport climbing? is that too ghey?
or are you imagining Smith Rock 5.14's, repeating Dream Catcher, maybe pushing local standards? if this be the case then:
Colinhoglund wrote: You can always cannibalize your draws and buy some runners later and make "trad draws" (hate the term too) AKA slings later. |
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bearbreeder
Nov 15, 2010, 9:24 PM
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just to note that i always buy draws anyways ... as you can often find deals on draw packages that are as cheap as buying the individual biners themselves
you just use cannibalize the draws if you need to and have a spare set of doggay bones laying around for the future
or use them as draws when u need ... lol
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jeepnphreak
Nov 16, 2010, 11:01 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Here is my 2 cents on draws and trad climbing
I like tripled up trad draws on cams and marginal placements where I fear the piece walking.
If its a bomber hex or nut that I feel will not walk and its wedged good I like a quick draw on it.
The reason for that is personal preference, I get a warn and fuzzy feel for some reason.
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