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Megsy
Nov 19, 2010, 5:03 PM
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Okay, so I started rock climbing a couple weeks ago and I've been having a blast so I decided to get myself a pair of shoes. I went to EMS and picked up a pair of the Evolv Elektras but after climbing in them last night I think I got a size too small (my feet still hurt today). So I was going to exchange them for a larger size. However, I also found out that because I work for a running store, I can get a great deal on Scarpas. And if I'm going to bring the Evolvs back, I might as well look at some other options right?
So, I've been looking at the Force and Veloce, or I can stick with the Elektra. I climb indoors at a gym and am a super beginner.
Also, I'll be going back to EMS to try them all on but what should I really be looking for in a shoe when I'm trying them on anyways?
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alpinismo_flujo
Nov 19, 2010, 5:10 PM
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IMO: a pair that is board lasted..unless you already have strong feet from all the running?
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erisspirit
Nov 19, 2010, 5:40 PM
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I would start with almost any cheap "intro" pair that is comfortable. Avoid any ones with aggressive downturn for now. As a beginner you are still learning technique and will blow through those shoes faster. Some rubber is more durable some is stickier, but in the end as a beginner you won't notice too much. Them being comfortable (for climbing shoes) will help as you get used to them.
I don't say a brand/style because each shoe is different and fit different. One that fits your friend brilliantly might be really uncomfortable to you.
I started with La sportiva cliffs, my BF started with scarpa, brother with five tens etc
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Colinhoglund
Nov 19, 2010, 5:50 PM
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Ditto ^^^^^^
Find a snug but less than painful laceup from a brand that fits you. Most velcro shoes are a step more aggressive then their laceup counterparts, and therefore more uncomfortable. Ie. evolv royale, scarpa thunder, la sportiva nago or cliff, and the 5.10 fox. Try as many as possible and pick the one that fells best while worn tight.
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jt512
Nov 19, 2010, 6:09 PM
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alpinismo_flujo wrote: IMO: a pair that is board lasted..unless you already have strong feet from all the running?
Board lasted? Does anybody even make a board lasted shoe anymore? (Even if they do, it's terrible advice.)
Jay
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jinetomy
Nov 19, 2010, 6:24 PM
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I get a cheap shoes from www.shoes-trader.com
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Colinhoglund
Nov 19, 2010, 6:31 PM
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jinetomy wrote: I get a cheap shoes from www.shoes-trader.com
To the clueless spammer . . . get lost!
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alpinismo_flujo
Nov 19, 2010, 7:04 PM
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jt512 wrote: alpinismo_flujo wrote: IMO: a pair that is board lasted..unless you already have strong feet from all the running? Board lasted? Does anybody even make a board lasted shoe anymore? (Even if they do, it's terrible advice.) Jay
hmm maybe they don't - haven't had a pair in years, but why would that be bad to start with for beginner?
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jt512
Nov 19, 2010, 7:07 PM
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alpinismo_flujo wrote: jt512 wrote: alpinismo_flujo wrote: IMO: a pair that is board lasted..unless you already have strong feet from all the running? Board lasted? Does anybody even make a board lasted shoe anymore? (Even if they do, it's terrible advice.) Jay hmm maybe they don't - haven't had a pair in years, but why would that be bad to start with for beginner?
Because they're too insensitive. Beginners need to use their feet well on holds. Board-lasted shoes make that all but impossible.
Jay
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alpinismo_flujo
Nov 19, 2010, 7:20 PM
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well yes they have less sensitivity but they provide(d) a platform for weak feet.
Styles come back around..wouldn't be surprised to see them reinvented as the "norm" someday but in cool colors that makes everyone want a solid pair of Aces again..LOL..whatever - love my Mythos for now.
How about socks; think they'll come back around? 
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j_ung
Nov 19, 2010, 7:37 PM
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I stopped wearing board-lasted shoes sometime in the mid nineties and never went back. Unless somebody had some sort of foot injury, I think they were straight horrible.
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SillyG
Nov 19, 2010, 8:35 PM
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I just started too, about a month into my favorite new lifestyle activity. After talking with folks, I decided to go with a snug, yet comfortable pair of shoes that aren't aggressively arched. Picked up a pair of Mad Rock Flash and love them.
Some people I talked with say that the shoes should be so tight they hurt, but from my perspective the shoes I wear (as long as they are decent) contribute so little to my overall skill that it really doesn't matter. I'd rather be comfortable than in pain. My feeling is that when I've gotten to a point where super tight shoes will make a difference, I'll actually care enough to wear the pain-cages. 
I also wear socks, the ultra-light "invisible" below the ankle types. Sue me. 
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kennoyce
Nov 19, 2010, 9:26 PM
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SillyG wrote: Some people I talked with say that the shoes should be so tight they hurt, but from my perspective the shoes I wear (as long as they are decent) contribute so little to my overall skill that it really doesn't matter. I'd rather be comfortable than in pain. My feeling is that when I've gotten to a point where super tight shoes will make a difference, I'll actually care enough to wear the pain-cages.
While being painful can ruin a good day of climbing, having shoes that don't fit well will certainly impede progression. I would say that if you get a shoe that is non-synthetic you should get it tight enough that it hurts because it will stretch to the point of being comfey fairly quickly. You obviously don't want them so tight that you can't even climb in them, but if they are leather and feel comfortable in the store, give it a couple of weeks and they will be to big.
Just my 2 cents.
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marc801
Nov 19, 2010, 10:37 PM
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kennoyce wrote: While being painful can ruin a good day of climbing, having shoes that don't fit well will certainly impede progression. I would say that if you get a shoe that is non-synthetic you should get it tight enough that it hurts because it will stretch to the point of being comfey fairly quickly. You obviously don't want them so tight that you can't even climb in them, but if they are leather and feel comfortable in the store, give it a couple of weeks and they will be to big.
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j_amie_
Nov 20, 2010, 3:19 AM
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I Started with a pair of 5.10 Spires, FYI they stretch alot...
Comfy shoe though.
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jbro_135
Nov 20, 2010, 10:42 PM
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marc801 wrote: kennoyce wrote: While being painful can ruin a good day of climbing, having shoes that don't fit well will certainly impede progression. I would say that if you get a shoe that is non-synthetic you should get it tight enough that it hurts because it will stretch to the point of being comfey fairly quickly. You obviously don't want them so tight that you can't even climb in them, but if they are leather and feel comfortable in the store, give it a couple of weeks and they will be to big. All of that is correct - for the width. But the length of the shoe, which is the size, is determined by the mid-sole and the rubber outer sole, and those just don't stretch more than 1/8-1/4 size, if at all.
Kennoyce is right on, you are wrong, shoes stretch more than that. Maybe you have fat feet?
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sp115
Nov 20, 2010, 11:51 PM
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Just to prove this discussion topic never has a clear answer - I've never had a pair of shoes that hurt when new and then stretched to be comfortable.
I now size my shoes out of the box to be very snug but not painful. If I stand on the climbing wall in the store and I'm in pain, then I go up a a half-size until the pain stops.
Tight to the point of pain for a beginner is a bad recommendation in my opinion.
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vegastradguy
Nov 21, 2010, 3:26 AM
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Megsy wrote: Also, I'll be going back to EMS to try them all on but what should I really be looking for in a shoe when I'm trying them on anyways?
a snug, but not painful fit. dead air should be kept to a minimum. your toes should be nearly flat or slightly bent. you basically should be able to wear them around the gym with little discomfort at first and within a few sessions, be able to wear them all night.
theres no reason to have pain at your experience level, even if the shoe stretches somewhat, it wont matter that much for you as by the time you have the skillset that a super-snug shoe is needed, you'll be on your third or fourth pair of shoes.
ive noticed that its a little tougher for women, due to the lack of low volume shoes out there. Get the shoe that fits the best. The most popular women's shoes i've seen are the Elektra, the Anasazi LV, and the Women's Muira.
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jt512
Nov 21, 2010, 4:11 AM
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vegastradguy wrote: Megsy wrote: Also, I'll be going back to EMS to try them all on but what should I really be looking for in a shoe when I'm trying them on anyways? a snug, but not painful fit. dead air should be kept to a minimum. your toes should be nearly flat or slightly bent. you basically should be able to wear them around the gym with little discomfort at first and within a few sessions, be able to wear them all night. theres no reason to have pain at your experience level, even if the shoe stretches somewhat, it wont matter that much for you as by the time you have the skillset that a super-snug shoe is needed, you'll be on your third or fourth pair of shoes.
Disagree that toes flat is desirable at any climbing level for bouldering, sport, or gym climbing. Climbing with the toes flat in the shoe will teach bad footwork for these climbing disciplines right from the start. There's nothing good about that. The beginner should find a shoe where the toes are moderately curled, but not painful. I usually suggest that, for a synthetic shoe, the beginner get the smallest size that can be worn pain free in the store for 15 minutes. For a natural leather shoe, find that size and then go down one-half a US size, and break the shoes in at home before taking them to the crag or gym. The shoes should quickly stretch to the point of being comfortable.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Nov 21, 2010, 4:33 AM)
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i_h8_choss
Nov 21, 2010, 4:38 AM
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this is not the only kind of pain yer gonna get from rock climbing. might be time to step up yer pain threshold a bit....huh?
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vegastradguy
Nov 21, 2010, 7:03 AM
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jt512 wrote: Disagree that toes flat is desirable at any climbing level for bouldering, sport, or gym climbing. Climbing with the toes flat in the shoe will teach bad footwork for these climbing disciplines right from the start.
i think we're saying pretty much the same thing. 'nearly flat/slightly bent' and 'moderately curled'- same thing, really.
that said, i dont believe that if the shoe fits correctly (no dead space, toes to the end of the shoe), flat toes are going to teach bad footwork. i've never bought into that belief of climbing shoes- instead, i just focused on good footwork and my shoe choices evolved over time to accomodate what i needed out of a shoe. initially, though, i dont believe the shoe makes any difference whatsoever as long as it fits the foot correctly.
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