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rock_fencer


Nov 29, 2010, 3:08 PM
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Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access
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Access to the greater hickory nut gorge area is being threatened by a new management plan for the area. A number of cliffs with untold potential, as well as older established routes that are currently off limits are being threatened! Comments through the 12/13/2010.

Draft plan and comment page here
http://www.greenways.com/chimneyrock

Carolina Climbers Website:
http://carolinaclimbers.org/rumbling-bald/chimney-rock-draft-master-plan-available-public-review-and-comment-nov-29th-dec-13th.h

Mods can you sticky or put on FP?


yodadave


Nov 30, 2010, 3:42 AM
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Re: [rock_fencer] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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http://carolinaclimbers.org/...-nov-29th-dec-13th.h


any info on what is being threatened exactly and how??
i don't have time right now to read the whole thing but it would seem Rumbling bald is within the plans


(This post was edited by yodadave on Nov 30, 2010, 3:47 AM)


Partner j_ung


Nov 30, 2010, 4:28 AM
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Re: [yodadave] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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Existing routes on RB and in the RB boulder fields appear to be the only climbing allowed in the entire park.


yodadave


Nov 30, 2010, 4:39 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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hey jung you mind directing me to where in the plan you read that??

yes i am that lazy Wink


warrenw


Nov 30, 2010, 7:59 AM
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Re: [yodadave] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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Chimney Rock State Park Master Plan Draft wrote:
Chapter 10
Recommended Park Development Plan

Page 24
Rock Climbing

Rock climbing is a popular recreational activity along the south facing cliffs of Rumbling Bald and at the Chimney Rock Attraction. Fox Mountain Guides, a licensed concessionaire to the State of North Carolina, operates fee-based climbing clinics at the Chimney Rock Attraction. Chimney Rock State Park currently operates public climbing access from the Rumbling Bald Climbing Day Use Area. This area contains a network of trails that connect to the climbing cliffs and boulder fields owned by the Carolina Climbers Coalition and The Nature Conservancy. Many of the trails have fallen into disrepair and are in need of major rehabilitation. In order to support increased user interest in this area, maintenance of these trails by their respective land managers will be necessary.

Most of the desired climbing areas in the Chimney Rock State Park study area are located in nationally significant natural heritage areas with sensitive ecosystems worthy of protection. Although the N.C. Division of Parks and Recreation provides access to the south face of Rumbling Bald from the climbing day use area on Boys Camp Road, much of the south face climbing area is on privately-owned property. Current or future access to the south face of Rumbling Bald will be determined by the existing landowner(s). Lands owned by the N.C. Division of Parks and Recreation presently used for rock climbing are already being negatively impacted by this historic use. The N.C. Division of Parks and Recreation must protect the nationally significant natural heritage areas, and therefore, rock climbing in the park will be limited to the impacted areas where rock climbing is currently allowed.

Chimney Rock State Park is closed to climbing with the exception of all existing routes on the south face of Rumbling Bald as they are identified in the Climbers Guide to North Carolina, Third Edition, by Thomas Kelley; and Selected Climbs in North Carolina, First Edition, by Yon Lambert and Harrison Shull. Bouldering is also allowed in the boulderfields below the south face of Rumbling Bald. Routes are identified in the Rumbling Bald Bouldering Guide, First Edition, by Chris Dorrity.

As Chimney Rock State Park is enlarged in the future, some of the acquired lands may include desired rock climbing areas. Providing recreational opportunities compatible with the character of Chimney Rock State Park and its natural resources is a goal identified in the master plan. Close examination of natural heritage data in desired rock climbing areas will determine if this activity is feasible. Using data from the well-documented Natural Heritage Program and Natural Resources Program, the N.C. Division of Parks and Recreation should develop a comprehensive park climbing management plan that identifies potential areas for this recreational activity.


clemsonscooby


Nov 30, 2010, 8:15 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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Their reasoning for not opening up more climbing is poor. Most of the climbing on the north side and round top mountain is not privately owned. How can they say we are destructive and then go and build miles of mountain biking trails... Make as many comments as possible.


Partner j_ung


Nov 30, 2010, 8:19 AM
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Re: [yodadave] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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yodadave wrote:
hey jung you mind directing me to where in the plan you read that??

yes i am that lazy Wink

Page 18 of Chapter 10 spells it out exceptionally clearly.


Partner j_ung


Nov 30, 2010, 8:26 AM
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Re: [clemsonscooby] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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clemsonscooby wrote:
Their reasoning for not opening up more climbing is poor. Most of the climbing on the north side and round top mountain is not privately owned. How can they say we are destructive and then go and build miles of mountain biking trails... Make as many comments as possible.

Indeed. I intend to include all the usual arguments, but as well, I'm going to cite several cases where climbers acted as stewards, not just fun hogs.

It seems to me that in the entire proposal, there is little to no mention of such stewardship. Instead, they strike a polar opposite position. They rail against the social trails climbers have made in the boulderfields and cite the destruction we've wrought on the ecosystem.

They obviously have no idea how potent a force for conservation the climbing community can be. Examples abound, and I suggest others cite whatever they can think of from their local crags -- intelligent trail building, anchor maintenance, clean-ups... bring it all out!


yodadave


Nov 30, 2010, 8:40 AM
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Re: [warrenw] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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warrenw wrote:
Chimney Rock State Park Master Plan Draft wrote:
Chapter 10
Recommended Park Development Plan

Page 24
Rock Climbing

Rock climbing is a popular recreational activity along the south facing cliffs of Rumbling Bald and at the Chimney Rock Attraction. Fox Mountain Guides, a licensed concessionaire to the State of North Carolina, operates fee-based climbing clinics at the Chimney Rock Attraction. Chimney Rock State Park currently operates public climbing access from the Rumbling Bald Climbing Day Use Area. This area contains a network of trails that connect to the climbing cliffs and boulder fields owned by the Carolina Climbers Coalition and The Nature Conservancy. Many of the trails have fallen into disrepair and are in need of major rehabilitation. In order to support increased user interest in this area, maintenance of these trails by their respective land managers will be necessary.

Most of the desired climbing areas in the Chimney Rock State Park study area are located in nationally significant natural heritage areas with sensitive ecosystems worthy of protection. Although the N.C. Division of Parks and Recreation provides access to the south face of Rumbling Bald from the climbing day use area on Boys Camp Road, much of the south face climbing area is on privately-owned property. Current or future access to the south face of Rumbling Bald will be determined by the existing landowner(s). Lands owned by the N.C. Division of Parks and Recreation presently used for rock climbing are already being negatively impacted by this historic use. The N.C. Division of Parks and Recreation must protect the nationally significant natural heritage areas, and therefore, rock climbing in the park will be limited to the impacted areas where rock climbing is currently allowed.

Chimney Rock State Park is closed to climbing with the exception of all existing routes on the south face of Rumbling Bald as they are identified in the Climbers Guide to North Carolina, Third Edition, by Thomas Kelley; and Selected Climbs in North Carolina, First Edition, by Yon Lambert and Harrison Shull. Bouldering is also allowed in the boulderfields below the south face of Rumbling Bald. Routes are identified in the Rumbling Bald Bouldering Guide, First Edition, by Chris Dorrity.

As Chimney Rock State Park is enlarged in the future, some of the acquired lands may include desired rock climbing areas. Providing recreational opportunities compatible with the character of Chimney Rock State Park and its natural resources is a goal identified in the master plan. Close examination of natural heritage data in desired rock climbing areas will determine if this activity is feasible. Using data from the well-documented Natural Heritage Program and Natural Resources Program, the N.C. Division of Parks and Recreation should develop a comprehensive park climbing management plan that identifies potential areas for this recreational activity.

Chris will be interested in spreading the word since he is currently working on the second edition which apparently contains 1,500 problems.


yodadave


Nov 30, 2010, 8:45 AM
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Re: [yodadave] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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Here is a direct link to the comments survey


http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/BT3BZJ8


go rally the troops there are still untouched lines at the bald


seanb


Nov 30, 2010, 8:56 AM
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Re: [yodadave] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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this is incredibly frustrating because we climbers lobbied for the park's creation. many of you will remember our 'call to action' on here and other websites, when we were able to mobilize a significant effort to secure linchpin parcels and to convince our state officials that we needed help to keep our climbing opportunities open. we reached out and partnered (or so we thought), with conservation organizations, other rec user groups, and the state parks; we did this on good faith that we would have a strong voice in the future climbing opportunities of the hickory nut gorge. we engaged in a patient and thoughtful dialogue, we brought real money to the bargaining process and now our user group seems be relegated to the 'dust bin'.

we're getting screwed!

PLEASE click on over and submit comments regarding the master plan!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/BT3BZJ8


Abner659


Nov 30, 2010, 7:04 PM
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 I wonder if these guys have ever seen a horse trail(damage done) comments submitted!


TarheelJD


Nov 30, 2010, 9:15 PM
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Re: [Abner659] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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I would really enjoy reading all of the comments that were submitted. I was really disappointed when I read the proposal on Monday.


clemsonscooby


Dec 1, 2010, 6:19 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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I trail run somewhere horses are also rode. What a mess... Every uphill slope is rutted. Any where that keeps a puddle of water turns into a larger and larger pool of mud. Not pretty.

The CCC does trail day at RB every year. We also plan on giving them part of the boulder field purchased by climbers. Hard to say we aren't good stewards.


Partner j_ung


Dec 1, 2010, 6:56 AM
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Re: [clemsonscooby] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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clemsonscooby wrote:
The CCC does trail day at RB every year. We also plan on giving them part of the boulder field purchased by climbers. Hard to say we aren't good stewards.

In light of this slap to the face, I sincerely hope the CCC reconsiders that.


forkliftdaddy


Dec 1, 2010, 4:44 PM
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Re: [j_ung] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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Let me give y'all a quick update on where things are, where they are headed, and what y'all can do:

Where Things Stand with the Park System
So I had a productive conversation with Max Rogers, the project manager in charge of this master plan whing-ding. He was very receptive to many of the changes the CCC hopes to see. He seemed a reasonable ally in the creation of a cooperative relationship going forward.

We requested an extension to the comment period, but this will not be provided. While this was no surprise, it does mean that we need to continue to move forward in rapid fashion. We need folks to comment on the draft of the park plan.

Max's receptive attitude is no call for us to slack off in our efforts. As he himself stressed, his is not the sole or commanding voice on this, but he thought our request that these be considered in the future was very reasonable. And in reference to all of our ideas he reiterated that conservation is king.

Where Things are Headed
It is the plan of the CCC to go forward with our formal response as planned. We are working with the helpful folks at the Access Fund on this document and expect it to be done in the next day or so. Creating this has turned out to be a surprisingly complex matter.

In addition, later this week the CCC and the Access Fund will issue an Access Alert. As a part of this we will be providing climbers with a means by which to back us up, to reinforce our position with numbers. And from what I can tell the folks in the NC Park System and at Greenways Inc. welcome our feedback. As soon as this action alert is ready you will see it posted here.

What You Can Do
In the meantime, here's what you can do:

1. Read the relevant parts of the management plan. These can be found on the Greenways Inc. website:
- http://www.greenways.com/...eyrock_download.html

The document you are looking for is the Chapter 10: Recommended Park Development Plan. And the section you're looking for is on the last page, page 24. Hey, Warren already posted that here. Awesome.

2. Give comments on the Greenways site. Simply scroll down on the Project Resources page for Chimney Rock State Park and click the LINK TO COMMENT FORM. You can only submit comments once, so make sure you say everything you want to on the first try!

If you aren't sure what to say, the CCC and the Access Fund will be issuing a formal response. And, if you want to know what I said -- I jumped the gun on this and sent mine in today -- contact me and I'll share with you my response.

Thank you for your support on this matter.

Scott

Scott A. Gilliam
Secretary
Carolina Climbers' Coalition


(This post was edited by forkliftdaddy on Dec 3, 2010, 1:17 PM)


Partner j_ung


Dec 2, 2010, 5:48 AM
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Re: [forkliftdaddy] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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My letter, which is in the mail now:

In reply to:
J. Young
My address and stuff

State Parks Planners
NC Division of Parks and Recreation
1615 MSC
Raleigh, NC 27699-1615

Dear Planners,

I am writing today to express my dismay and frustration over the Draft Management Plan for Chimney Rock State Park, specifically as it relates to rock climbing. From my perspective, we raised funds, lobbied and build a coalition to support the acquisition of land for CRSP. And now we find that we have less* climbing access than before! This is a slap to the face.

The Draft Plan makes it clear that Greenways views climbers as destructive and irresponsible. Climbers, however, have a history of responsible stewardship. At the New River Gorge in WV, I sit on the Board of Directors of the New River Alliance of Climbers. Here, we have dozens of climbing areas incorporating thousands of climbs, and not one of them is off limits to us. Every single day, the National Park Service recognizes enormous advantages in terms of climber volunteerism and cooperation. We replace out-dated and unsafe fixed hardware, build thoughtful, environmentally sound trails and clean the trash left by other user groups -- all at our own expense. In return, we earn the respect of the Park Service, and all of us reap the benefits of a positive and cooperative relationship.

Climber activism and stewardship is a boon beyond measure for any land manager. When we organize around a plan, we are a potent force for conservation. The opportunity for CRSP to take advantage of this powerful volunteer resource, however, is dangerously close to disappearing.

Sincerely but angrily,

J. Young
Board of Directors
New River Alliance of Climbers

*By limiting climbing to Kelley and Lambert/Shull climbs, the Plan effectively bars us from climbing every pre-existing route not listed in those books, even though they exist on the same cliff sections as accessible climbs! This is but one example of the ignorant manner in which this process played out.


rock_fencer


Dec 2, 2010, 9:20 AM
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Re: [forkliftdaddy] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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can you throw down a quick summary of CCC projects that have helped promote conservation and such to help strengthen a comment.

land acquisition, trail days, etc...

cheers
T


Access_Fund


Dec 3, 2010, 1:05 PM
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Re: [rock_fencer] Hickory Nut Gorge NC Access [In reply to]
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Access Fund has set up an easy-to-use advocacy tool on our website to respond to this issue.

If you haven't already sent a letter, please take action today. It only takes 30 seconds to submit a letter with this tool.

http://www.accessfund.org/...208267&aid=15027
Thanks!


rock_fencer


Dec 5, 2010, 6:57 PM
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bump

Use the Access Fund letter to submit your comments!!!


T


nkane


Dec 5, 2010, 7:22 PM
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letter sent.


brian_h


Dec 7, 2010, 12:45 PM
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Sent my letter!


rock_fencer


Dec 8, 2010, 12:57 PM
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thanks guys.

BUMP back to the FP for this thread.


charley


Dec 8, 2010, 4:53 PM
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done


forkliftdaddy


Dec 8, 2010, 8:31 PM
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Awesome. Tell your climber friends to do the same. Every additional email is another ounce of worth behind our claims RE: the recreational vale of climbing in the gorge.

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