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cahuitaboy
Dec 2, 2010, 12:56 PM
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My friends and i are starting to climb harder routes and its a pain to sit there for ever holding onto the rope with a reverso. Which should i get a grigri or a cinch?
i tend to use my right as a brake hand but honestly it doesnt make much of a difference which hand i belay with.
Let me know
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NJSlacker
Dec 2, 2010, 2:23 PM
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ur gonna die...
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jo247
Dec 2, 2010, 2:28 PM
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NJSlacker wrote: ur gonna die...
indeed.
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carabiner96
Dec 2, 2010, 2:33 PM
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cahuitaboy wrote: My friends and i are starting to climb harder routes and its a pain to sit there for ever holding onto the rope with a reverso. Which should i get a grigri or a cinch? i tend to use my right as a brake hand but honestly it doesnt make much of a difference which hand i belay with. Let me know
Meh, I usually use whichever tuber I grab first a majority of the time, and save the gri gri for toproping or fatties.
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carabiner96
Dec 2, 2010, 2:37 PM
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carabiner96 wrote: cahuitaboy wrote: My friends and i are starting to climb harder routes and its a pain to sit there for ever holding onto the rope with a reverso. Which should i get a grigri or a cinch? i tend to use my right as a brake hand but honestly it doesnt make much of a difference which hand i belay with. Let me know Meh, I usually use whichever tuber I grab first a majority of the time, and save the gri gri for toproping or fatties.
Ok, side story. A gri gri was my first belay device - like very first (back when they were $60!) I got it because I thought people would see the gri gri and think I would be a safer belayer and I'd make lots of friends and we could have hair braiding parties at the base of routes. Oh, and because people would inherently mistrust a one handed belayer with a tuber device.
Well, 10 years later, no one's braided my hair but I've logged an inane amount of hours belaying with no problems yet.
Moral of the story? Use what you are most comfortable with, not what you think you should have or looks the coolest or "this thing must be more rad because its $95"
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Jooler
Dec 2, 2010, 6:25 PM
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I've used a friends cinch and I didn't like it. I find the rope runs smoother through a grigri and the grigri is easier to use in general (personal opinion).
If you choose a grigri however, maybe wait til spring as Petzl is releasing their new version of it then...smaller, lighter...
Edit:
Grigri2: http://www.petzl.com/en/video/grigri2
(This post was edited by Jooler on Dec 2, 2010, 6:27 PM)
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rock_fencer
Dec 2, 2010, 6:31 PM
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cinch feeds faster and is lighter than the Gri-Gri Version 1.0. In general i use a tube style device for anything that isnt toproping or aid
in reality it doesnt really matter. If your partner is just dogging the shit out of a route and hes just resting, then learn how to tie him off with a mule knot
T
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brokesomeribs
Dec 2, 2010, 9:38 PM
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Trango Cinch, without a doubt. It's lighter, cheaper, and smaller than a GriGri.
The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. The Cinch passes the rope through perfectly unbent and through a slightly larger cavity... it's science. Additionally, the only real safe method to feed rope quickly through a GriGri is slightly awkward, hence most people just squeeze the cam with their hand.... which causes idiots to drop their friends every year. The Cinch is much more intelligently designed, IMO.
The upcoming GG2 may change some of my above complaints, but the Cinch is still definitely cheaper. Since I like it so much, I have no intention of switching.
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jakedatc
Dec 2, 2010, 9:50 PM
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brokesomeribs wrote: Trango Cinch, without a doubt. It's lighter, cheaper, and smaller than a GriGri. The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. The Cinch passes the rope through perfectly unbent and through a slightly larger cavity... it's science. Additionally, the only real safe method to feed rope quickly through a GriGri is slightly awkward, hence most people just squeeze the cam with their hand.... which causes idiots to drop their friends every year. The Cinch is much more intelligently designed, IMO. The upcoming GG2 may change some of my above complaints, but the Cinch is still definitely cheaper. Since I like it so much, I have no intention of switching.
Yep, notice the guy who posted it hasn't actually used it for very long. It takes practice and you can't think of it like a gri gri.
Plus if you ever have issues Mal is a great resource that is almost always reachable by PM or email.
Vote: Cinch
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gosharks
Dec 2, 2010, 10:52 PM
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brokesomeribs wrote: Additionally, the only real safe method to feed rope quickly through a GriGri is slightly awkward, hence most people just squeeze the cam with their hand.... which causes idiots to drop their friends every year.
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currupt4130
Dec 2, 2010, 11:06 PM
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brokesomeribs wrote: Trango Cinch, without a doubt. It's lighter, cheaper, and smaller than a GriGri. The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. The Cinch passes the rope through perfectly unbent and through a slightly larger cavity... it's science. Additionally, the only real safe method to feed rope quickly through a GriGri is slightly awkward, hence most people just squeeze the cam with their hand.... which causes idiots to drop their friends every year. The Cinch is much more intelligently designed, IMO. The upcoming GG2 may change some of my above complaints, but the Cinch is still definitely cheaper. Since I like it so much, I have no intention of switching.
My vote is for the Cinch as well.
A word of advice though, learn how to use it properly. Don't think of it like a Grigri, they don't work the same way. Everyone likes a Grigri because you can pick it up, hold the cam down, throw rope and act like you're belaying and feel safe about it because it's an "auto locking device" or "locking assist" (which is more appropriate).
Get a Cinch, become proficient with it, and you'll hate using a Grigri. It will feel un-natural, clumsy and slow.
I'll get you started on learning to use it too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9TO5ikqXwo
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brokesomeribs
Dec 2, 2010, 11:08 PM
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The new technique that Petzl put out in '08 is substantially better than the old/classic technique they endorsed, but still lacking. You have to wrap your thumb around the lever, hook your pointer finger under the bent lip on the face of the grigri, and then pull rope through.
It's awkward, and worse, it still doesn't feed as smooth as grabbing the cam (AKA "the death belay") which is what ends up happening all over the country as n00bs think they're safer.
The Cinch has none of those shortcomings. The act of holding it in the normal belaying position also allows it to instantly feed rope, just by virtue of hand position.
And definitely watch the video above. For what it's worth, ignore the "counter-intuitive" remark that Mal makes. it's only counter-intuitive because the world is used to 20 years of GriGri clumsiness.
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Jooler
Dec 2, 2010, 11:12 PM
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brokesomeribs wrote: The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. Jooler wrote: I've used a friends cinch and I didn't like it. I find the rope runs smoother through a grigri and the grigri is easier to use in general (personal opinion).
So what you're saying is how I found the cinch vs grigri...my PERSONAL opinion...is wrong? You're implying that what I was actually feeling was that the cinch was feeding smoother and it was easier to use? Crazy!
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brokesomeribs
Dec 2, 2010, 11:27 PM
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Jooler wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. Jooler wrote: I've used a friends cinch and I didn't like it. I find the rope runs smoother through a grigri and the grigri is easier to use in general (personal opinion). So what you're saying is how I found the cinch vs grigri...my PERSONAL opinion...is wrong? You're implying that what I was actually feeling was that the cinch was feeding smoother and it was easier to use? Crazy!
I sure am. I know your thoughts. Trust me, I have ESPN. If I wanted your opinion, I would have given it to you.
And being serious for a second.... you're entitled to prefer the GriGri. It's irrelevant to me which belay device you choose. However, you can't claim that a GriGri feeds smoother - it's physically impossible (unless you were using the Cinch improperly). When feeding rope, the Cinch passes the rope in a straight line over the cam - effectively zero friction. The GriGri wraps the rope in a nearly 180 degree bend around the cam.
There is no way, under proper operating conditions, either theoretical or practical, whereby a GriGri can feed rope smoother than a Cinch.
QED
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redlude97
Dec 2, 2010, 11:37 PM
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Jooler wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. Jooler wrote: I've used a friends cinch and I didn't like it. I find the rope runs smoother through a grigri and the grigri is easier to use in general (personal opinion). So what you're saying is how I found the cinch vs grigri...my PERSONAL opinion...is wrong? You're implying that what I was actually feeling was that the cinch was feeding smoother and it was easier to use? Crazy!
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Jooler
Dec 2, 2010, 11:41 PM
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brokesomeribs wrote: Jooler wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. Jooler wrote: I've used a friends cinch and I didn't like it. I find the rope runs smoother through a grigri and the grigri is easier to use in general (personal opinion). So what you're saying is how I found the cinch vs grigri...my PERSONAL opinion...is wrong? You're implying that what I was actually feeling was that the cinch was feeding smoother and it was easier to use? Crazy! I sure am. I know your thoughts. Trust me, I have ESPN. If I wanted your opinion, I would have given it to you. And being serious for a second.... you're entitled to prefer the GriGri. It's irrelevant to me which belay device you choose. However, you can't claim that a GriGri feeds smoother - it's physically impossible (unless you were using the Cinch improperly). When feeding rope, the Cinch passes the rope in a straight line over the cam - effectively zero friction. The GriGri wraps the rope in a nearly 180 degree bend around the cam. There is no way, under proper operating conditions, either theoretical or practical, whereby a GriGri can feed rope smoother than a Cinch. QED
Haha thanks for the laugh 
Perhaps I was using the Cinch incorrectly, I really didn't like it, therefore I'll probably never know! (as I highly doubt I'll give it another shot...yea stubborn).
I wonder what the GriGri2 will be like...perhaps it will be "physically possible" for it to feed smoother, eh? 
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Jooler
Dec 2, 2010, 11:45 PM
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Is a Cinch easier to use than a GriGri?
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rocknice2
Dec 2, 2010, 11:59 PM
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Jooler wrote: Is a Cinch easier to use than a GriGri?
The technique to feed rope fast is easier to master wjth the Cinch than the GG.
It just fits properly in the hand. 3 finger on brake @ 2 controlling Cinch.
I have both, got the GG first and 5 years later bought a Cinch. Never picked up the GG again.
The GriGri does a better job for top ropping.
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Jooler
Dec 3, 2010, 12:05 AM
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rocknice2 wrote: Jooler wrote: Is a Cinch easier to use than a GriGri? The technique to feed rope fast is easier to master wjth the Cinch than the GG. It just fits properly in the hand. 3 finger on brake @ 2 controlling Cinch. I have both, got the GG first and 5 years later bought a Cinch. Never picked up the GG again. The GriGri does a better job for top ropping.
Perhaps its time I give the Cinch another try then...
Edit: a quick search answered my question
(This post was edited by Jooler on Dec 3, 2010, 12:07 AM)
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rocknice2
Dec 3, 2010, 12:13 AM
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A friend gave me a Smartt. It works OK, very light but kind of flimsy.
Multi pitch I just grab a BD Guide and craging I use the Cinch.
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bill413
Dec 3, 2010, 2:24 AM
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Jooler wrote: Is a Cinch easier to use than a GriGri?
They are slightly different. They are both relatively easy to use AS LONG AS YOU LEARN HOW TO USE THE DEVICE. They do not operate the same, and some folks prefer one, some folks prefer the other.
You will probably find the one you practice with the most to be easiest.
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gosharks
Dec 3, 2010, 8:39 AM
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brokesomeribs wrote: It's awkward, and worse, it still doesn't feed as smooth as grabbing the cam (AKA "the death belay") which is what ends up happening all over the country as n00bs think they're safer.
I actually think that the "new" method is smoother than just grabbing the entire device. Looping the brake end of the rope over the lip critically improves the smoothness of pulling the rope through.
Then again, I can't say that I have all a bunch of experience using the traditional method. I picked up the "new" method off of 8a.nu well before it was the officially recommended method (shortly after I had started using a GriGri.)
(This post was edited by gosharks on Dec 3, 2010, 8:40 AM)
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billcoe_
Dec 3, 2010, 4:22 PM
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Get one of each.
BTW, learn to use each hand.
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jt512
Dec 3, 2010, 7:52 PM
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gosharks wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: It's awkward, and worse, it still doesn't feed as smooth as grabbing the cam (AKA "the death belay") which is what ends up happening all over the country as n00bs think they're safer. I actually think that the "new" method is smoother than just grabbing the entire device. Looping the brake end of the rope over the lip critically improves the smoothness of pulling the rope through.
Really? I think it does just the opposite. I haven't used the "new" method much, but it seems to me that looping the rope over the lip of the grigri creates additional friction, making it more difficult to feed rope smoothly.
Jay
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caughtinside
Dec 3, 2010, 8:22 PM
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bill413 wrote: Jooler wrote: Is a Cinch easier to use than a GriGri? They are slightly different. They are both relatively easy to use AS LONG AS YOU LEARN HOW TO USE THE DEVICE. They do not operate the same, and some folks prefer one, some folks prefer the other. You will probably find the one you practice with the most to be easiest.
I learned the grigri first, and felt very comfortable using it.
I got a cinch to try out, more for fun than anything else. It wasn't intuative for me, and I never felt as solid with the cinch as with the grigri. Not saying this is a flaw with the cinch, they just require a different belay technique.
I gave up on the cinch because I already had so much belay time in on the grigri where I felt solid, and didn't get enough benefit from using the cinch to warrant switching devices.
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