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Poll: Double rope, twin rope, which do I get?
Double Rope 28 / 93%
Twin Rope 2 / 7%
30 total votes
 

malcolm777b


Nov 30, 2010, 7:18 AM
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Re: [Colinhoglund] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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Colinhoglund wrote:
malcolm777b wrote:
Twins that aren't rated as a half rope should theoretically have a lower peak impact force than a rope rated as a half-rope and not a twin (when the half rope is used in twin configuration). So, if you need the redundancy of two ropes on each piece, AND want a lower peak impact force, that's a reason to go with twins. That sure sounds like a very specific scenario though, and not a compelling reason for twins.

So in conclusion, the result of our conversation is that half ropes are more versatile. They will work as twins if you want them to unless your really concerned about weight, or if you are concerned that there is a possibility of increased impact forces on your gear. While still being more durable, able to catch a fall on their own (aka double rope technique) and easier to control through a belay device because of increased friction. Everybody happy nowWink?
I think you summed it up well. I'd like to add that I was nervous the first time using halfs, thinking it would be hard to catch a fall on one strand with another strand in the same hand. My climber took a controlled fall, and my concerns evaporated.


sandstone


Nov 30, 2010, 10:34 AM
Post #27 of 46 (2106 views)
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Registered: Apr 21, 2004
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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Go doubles.

Twins give you redundancy to protect against rope damage (nice for alpine and ice where things are always falling about), and the ability to do full length rappels. Doubles give you those same advantages, plus more.

My first two-rope rig was twins. I got them so I could do full length rappels -- twins seemed to make more sense than trailing up an extra rope (or having the second carry it). If the weight of a second rope is going to be there, why not use twins and put the second rope to work helping protect the lead? That worked well enough, but after the twins were retired I switched to doubles. I'm on my second pair of doubles now, and would never go back to twins. There's nothing wrong with twins, but doubles are just more versatile.

The decrease in rope drag using doubles on wandering routes is a big blessing. It'll take a little bit of learning to get the full benefit, but nothing major.

Leading and belaying with doubles is a little more complicated than with a single, but not excessively so like some people claim. To me it's kind of like the difference between playing a six string or a 12 string guitar. If you can play a six you can pick up a 12 and play it -- the chords are the same. From there you can explore the nuances that are only possible with those doubled strings.

Most of the time (on ice or rock) I'm climbing with two partners. With double ropes and an ATC Guide the seconds come up simultanously. That's a huge time saver.

I don't need super lightweight/skinny ropes for the stuff I do, so I lean towards 8.2 - 8.5's. These handle very well, don't kink excessively, and are durable.

Of course a double rope is not as durable as a fat single rope, but why would anyone expect it to be? I've not experienced any durability problems with doubles, on ice or rock. The exception to that is a bad experience with a pair of Petzl Dragonfly's -- but that was a problem with that specific make of rope, not a problem with doubles in general.

If you have a need for super light weight, then explore the super skinny options, but only if you really need that. For general use on ice and rock, you'll probably be very happy with the performance, handling, and durability of a pair of 8.5's doubles. That's a solid purchase you won't regret.


Partner neuroshock


Dec 8, 2010, 2:07 PM
Post #28 of 46 (2055 views)
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Re: [sandstone] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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sandstone wrote:
Of course a double rope is not as durable as a fat single rope, but why would anyone expect it to be? I've not experienced any durability problems with doubles, on ice or rock. The exception to that is a bad experience with a pair of Petzl Dragonfly's -- but that was a problem with that specific make of rope, not a problem with doubles in general.

I've been considering getting a set of half ropes and have been looking at the Dragonflys as an option. Would you mind elaborating on your own experiences with them?

-Mike


Partner devkrev


Dec 8, 2010, 2:24 PM
Post #29 of 46 (2049 views)
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Registered: Sep 28, 2004
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
Its time I finally got a 2-rope system. Mostly I'll be using it for ice climbing, although it will see use as a multi-pitch trad option to limit the weight of carrying two full-size ropes.

Anybody have experience on both? I don't like meandering routes, but that really has no bearing on how often i end up climbing them, especially in the alpine realm.


I'd thought there used to be a few models out there that could be used for half/twin, but I can't find any now.

But I'd say go with twins, if you are looking for extra rope on multipitch stuff, just pack one of the twins in your followers backpack, and climb on the single rope.

Its my experience that if I'm not climbing in a place where I can link together meandering pitches, like the gunks, or at a place where doubles facilitate equalizing gear placements, like the gunks, then I don't really like bothering with doubles.


sandstone


Dec 8, 2010, 2:45 PM
Post #30 of 46 (2043 views)
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Registered: Apr 21, 2004
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Re: [neuroshock] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
...I've ... been looking at the Dragonflys as an option. Would you mind elaborating on your own experiences with them?

My experience was premature failure of the sheath. The marketing hype says it is supposed to be a super durable rope, but the exact opposite was my experience. After just one or two light uses the sheath had very visible wear. Read the comments at the bottom of this Alpinist page, my experience was similar.

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web10s/ms-kl-petzl-dragonfly-ropes

The only good thing about those ropes was that we got them cheap, but it was not a good investment. I won't be buying any more Petzl ropes.


sp115


Dec 8, 2010, 4:28 PM
Post #31 of 46 (2029 views)
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Registered: Apr 17, 2007
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Re: [devkrev] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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devkrev wrote:
But I'd say go with twins, if you are looking for extra rope on multipitch stuff, just pack one of the twins in your followers backpack, and climb on the single rope.

I assume you mean climb on a rope rated as a single, not one strand of the twin?


petsfed


Dec 8, 2010, 4:39 PM
Post #32 of 46 (2025 views)
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Re: [devkrev] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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devkrev wrote:
But I'd say go with twins, if you are looking for extra rope on multipitch stuff, just pack one of the twins in your followers backpack, and climb on the single rope.

Well, I was hoping to avoid a second-pack sort of deal. Unless you're saying that I only climb on one of the twins, in which case, yeesh.

Its actually in preparation for trips to the Winds, Rocky Mountain, Red Rocks, most anywhere where the pitch count is more than 10, and long rappels are required.


rhyang


Dec 8, 2010, 6:06 PM
Post #33 of 46 (2014 views)
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
Its time I finally got a 2-rope system. Mostly I'll be using it for ice climbing, although it will see use as a multi-pitch trad option to limit the weight of carrying two full-size ropes.

Anybody have experience on both? I don't like meandering routes, but that really has no bearing on how often i end up climbing them, especially in the alpine realm.

For ice I have PMI Verglas 8.1's -- they are rated as both twins and halfs. PMI also makes a thicker model called the fusion I think, 8.6 which is also rated for both. A partner has those.

I also own Edelweiss Dynamic 8.3's, which are now rated for use as twins/doubles. I use those for trad, and have used single strands on easier alpine routes.

Metolius Monster 7.8's (made by Tendon if I'm not mistaken) are also rated as both twin/half, but only come in 60m lengths.


altelis


Dec 8, 2010, 7:46 PM
Post #34 of 46 (2003 views)
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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My 2 cents....of course it depends, and here are my reasons for one or the other

IF:
1) ...you really are going to be doing mainly ice/alpine, i would go twins. easier to manage, lighter, less worry about tons of rock abrasion (in those scenarios). If you do a lot of backcountry skiing, general winter mountaineering, glacier travel to non-technical routes, owning twins is a huge advantage, cause you can pack just one of them. I rarely go out backcountry skiing in steep or corniced terrain w/o either a twin or my skinny pull line for full-length single rope raps. You can use the rope for cutting/dropping cornices, and a proper length ruschblock cord is too short for this. You can get your partner to get a good positional belay (skis really help with this) and give you a hip belay off a bowline tie in if you are entering steep avy-prone terrain. And, if you are exploring backcountry areas not well traveled, you can use the rope to do a body-rap over sketchy couloir entrances

2)...you'll spend more or at least equal time on rock with them, or you don't do any of those "extra" things, i'd go with a double that you'd be willing to lead on as a single in a pinch if a rope gets caught up on rappell...


bill413


Dec 8, 2010, 7:52 PM
Post #35 of 46 (2001 views)
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Registered: Oct 19, 2004
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Re: [altelis] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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altelis wrote:
My 2 cents....of course it depends, and here are my reasons for one or the other

IF:
1) ...you really are going to be doing mainly ice/alpine, i would go twins. easier to manage, lighter, less worry about tons of rock abrasion (in those scenarios). If you do a lot of backcountry skiing, general winter mountaineering, glacier travel to non-technical routes, owning twins is a huge advantage, cause you can pack just one of them. I rarely go out backcountry skiing in steep or corniced terrain w/o either a twin or my skinny pull line for full-length single rope raps. You can use the rope for cutting/dropping cornices, and a proper length ruschblock cord is too short for this. You can get your partner to get a good positional belay (skis really help with this) and give you a hip belay off a bowline tie in if you are entering steep avy-prone terrain. And, if you are exploring backcountry areas not well traveled, you can use the rope to do a body-rap over sketchy couloir entrances

2)...you'll spend more or at least equal time on rock with them, or you don't do any of those "extra" things, i'd go with a double that you'd be willing to lead on as a single in a pinch if a rope gets caught up on rappell...

Sounds like superb advice.


altelis


Dec 8, 2010, 8:02 PM
Post #36 of 46 (1991 views)
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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Re: [bill413] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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Gee shucks. Thanks.

PS, just in case it wasn't clear...

You can do all the things I talk about using a twin for with a double, its just bulkier and heavier and that trade off isn't worth it in those applications.

You could use a twin in scenario 2 but in that case the bulk and increased diameter IS worth it, plus you have the option of reducing drag on meandering routes and reducing impact force on crappy pieces...


Rudmin


Dec 8, 2010, 11:23 PM
Post #37 of 46 (1978 views)
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Registered: Mar 29, 2009
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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Is there such a thing as a 100m bi-coloured "double" rope? I would imagine that to be the best of all worlds.


qwert


Dec 9, 2010, 12:42 AM
Post #38 of 46 (1968 views)
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Re: [bill413] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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bill413 wrote:
altelis wrote:
My 2 cents....of course it depends, and here are my reasons for one or the other

IF:
1) ...you really are going to be doing mainly ice/alpine, i would go twins. easier to manage, lighter, less worry about tons of rock abrasion (in those scenarios). If you do a lot of backcountry skiing, general winter mountaineering, glacier travel to non-technical routes, owning twins is a huge advantage, cause you can pack just one of them. I rarely go out backcountry skiing in steep or corniced terrain w/o either a twin or my skinny pull line for full-length single rope raps. You can use the rope for cutting/dropping cornices, and a proper length ruschblock cord is too short for this. You can get your partner to get a good positional belay (skis really help with this) and give you a hip belay off a bowline tie in if you are entering steep avy-prone terrain. And, if you are exploring backcountry areas not well traveled, you can use the rope to do a body-rap over sketchy couloir entrances

2)...you'll spend more or at least equal time on rock with them, or you don't do any of those "extra" things, i'd go with a double that you'd be willing to lead on as a single in a pinch if a rope gets caught up on rappell...

Sounds like superb advice.
No it doesnt!

Twins arent exactly meant to be used for ice and alpine. Thats what doubles are for!

Multipitch sport climbing where you want the advantage of long rappels and some added cut safety? Go with twins, but for anything else: Doubles.

Also with all the ultralight new double ropes, that can also be used as twins, i see virtually no reason at all to buy twins.

qwert


degaine


Dec 9, 2010, 4:40 AM
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Re: [Rudmin] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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Rudmin wrote:
Is there such a thing as a 100m bi-coloured "double" rope? I would imagine that to be the best of all worlds.

Yes. My Beal Cobra 8.6 was sold as one 100 m rope to be used as doubles. I cut it at the mid point in order to have two seperate ropes. As far as I know, many rope manufacturers do this.


degaine


Dec 9, 2010, 5:21 AM
Post #40 of 46 (1944 views)
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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I've been climbing on doubles for years and have climbed on twins quite a bit as well (as small as twin 7.7s). I like using both though, as I wrote just above, I only own a set of doubles (Beal Cobra 8.6s).

As has been stated, doubles and twins have a lot of advantages.

If you: (1) climb routes - ice or rock - that do not tend to meander (read no rope drag), (2) rarely if ever climb as a threesome, and (3) for basic glacier travel or mountaineering you already have a dedicated rope, then I would recommend twins. Each strand is super light to carry, and rope management is easier and more intuitive at first (for leader and belayer).

For long multipitch climbs, if given the choice between twins or climbing with a single strand and trailing a second line, I'd go with twins.

On ice, however, I've only climbed with doubles (as both a team of two and a team of three), and find that doubles work just fine (the Beal Cobra is dry treated).

In addition to the other useful comments in this thread, hope that helps.


jrathfon


Dec 9, 2010, 8:27 AM
Post #41 of 46 (1922 views)
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Re: [rhyang] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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"rhyang wrote:
For ice I have PMI Verglas 8.1's -- they are rated as both twins and halfs. PMI also makes a thicker model called the fusion I think, 8.6 which is also rated for both. A partner has those.

I also own Edelweiss Dynamic 8.3's, which are now rated for use as twins/doubles. I use those for trad, and have used single strands on easier alpine routes.

Metolius Monster 7.8's (made by Tendon if I'm not mistaken) are also rated as both twin/half, but only come in 60m lengths.

I have the 8.1 Verglas' as well. They are rated for both twin and double use, albeit with a Fall Rating of ~5 for double use. That's OK if you are truly using them as doubles, but damn scary and thin if you take just one out to do an easy alpine route. In that case I wish I was climbing on an 8.5 - 9.1 (which is the realm of doubles that can be used as twins, as opposed to the other way around). What I have found the 8.1's in twin fashion helpful on is long easy gulley's where full raps are helpful, and long climbs in red rocks (again with full raps). One is equally useful as a tag line for red rocks routes, super light. I think the main benefits of doubles for ice is the shorter fall potential when one piece blows, course I don't clmb hard ice much, so it was a non-issue for me, I liked the redundancy on easy gulleys if you happened to kick a line, etc.


jrathfon


Dec 9, 2010, 8:30 AM
Post #42 of 46 (1921 views)
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Re: [jrathfon] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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Oh and for the long multi-pitch lines choosing between twins or a single and trailing a tag... when the wind gets going in Red Rocks, that thin tag line gets stuck on EVERYTHING, and needs to be constantly managed, saddle bagged on raps. Whereas climbing as twins, at least on lead, that sucker is clipped in through the climb and won't whip around. Everyonce in a while though, when doing a hard clip, bumbling twins in the clip can suck.


nh_ranger


Dec 9, 2010, 12:00 PM
Post #43 of 46 (1888 views)
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Re: [jrathfon] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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There are plenty of skinny ropes that are certified as both. The metolius monster is what I have, at 7.7mm It is one of the lightest cords on the market that is dual certified.


Partner devkrev


Dec 9, 2010, 5:08 PM
Post #44 of 46 (1853 views)
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
devkrev wrote:
But I'd say go with twins, if you are looking for extra rope on multipitch stuff, just pack one of the twins in your followers backpack, and climb on the single rope.

Well, I was hoping to avoid a second-pack sort of deal. Unless you're saying that I only climb on one of the twins, in which case, yeesh.

Its actually in preparation for trips to the Winds, Rocky Mountain, Red Rocks, most anywhere where the pitch count is more than 10, and long rappels are required.

I definitely am not advising climbing a single strand of a twin rope, had I said "climb on A single rope" that would have been clearer.

Maybe a 70 meter single will serve your purposes.

You will have a best rope for each of the types of climbing you want to do, but when it comes to finding the best option for multiple purposes, I think you will just have to figure out the "least bad" option.

dev


sandstone


Dec 10, 2010, 10:06 AM
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
...Its actually in preparation for trips to the Winds, Rocky Mountain, Red Rocks, most anywhere where the pitch count is more than 10, and long rappels are required.

Due to the length of the approaches, especially in the Winds, the weight of your ropes becomes more of a factor. Super skinny cords start sounding pretty good when you have to carry them that far just to get to your climb.

There's some good discussion in this thread. Let us know what you decide to buy.


Paul_W


Dec 23, 2010, 12:57 PM
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Re: [petsfed] Double rope, twin rope, which do I get? [In reply to]
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I have used both extensively. my preference is for half ropes not doubles. the problem i had with my doubles is that with such small diameter they suffered serious abrasion on rapell. were retired when my buddy handed me the rope after rapel with one cord cut almost in half. the half ropes let you clip one or both as you see fit and are more robust from abasion point of view. i personally am not that concerned with alleged high fall factor if you clip both half ropes through the same piece but that would be a personal choice for you to consider. if concerned about that you can just not ever clip both ropes through same piece.

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