|
jcd82
Dec 30, 2010, 7:34 PM
Post #1 of 16
(4361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 20, 2010
Posts: 29
|
I've been looking into doing some top roping in a park nearby and am looking for some clarification on the setup (know that I won't go out and climb on this with out some one who actually knows what they're doing. And I know, I could take a class but I suppose I'm just curious as to if this will work. I'll learn more later).
After reading some threads and sections in books this is the plan:
Use loops of webbing tied with a water knot and girth hitch them to three trees (with appropriate angles between them). Attatch a biner to each end, then use static rope/sling to self equailize (attatch to all three biners, then pull down two loops and attatch with biner). Then, to extend over the edge would I simply use two loops of webbing, both with a figure eight at each end? Then biners then rope?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
dbogardus
Dec 30, 2010, 7:43 PM
Post #2 of 16
(4350 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 148
|
jcd82 wrote: I've been looking into doing some top roping in a park nearby and am looking for some clarification on the setup (know that I won't go out and climb on this with out some one who actually knows what they're doing. And I know, I could take a class but I suppose I'm just curious as to if this will work. I'll learn more later). After reading some threads and sections in books this is the plan: Use loops of webbing tied with a water knot and girth hitch them to three trees (with appropriate angles between them). Attatch a biner to each end, then use static rope/sling to self equailize (attatch to all three biners, then pull down two loops and attatch with biner). Then, to extend over the edge would I simply use two loops of webbing, both with a figure eight at each end? Then biners then rope? Thanks
While the concept of having three anchor points is sound, all you really need is one strong tree for a TR anchor.
But don't take my word for it...
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Dec 30, 2010, 7:44 PM
Post #3 of 16
(4347 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
jcd82 wrote: I've been looking into doing some top roping in a park nearby and am looking for some clarification on the setup (know that I won't go out and climb on this with out some one who actually knows what they're doing. And I know, I could take a class but I suppose I'm just curious as to if this will work. I'll learn more later). After reading some threads and sections in books this is the plan: Use loops of webbing tied with a water knot and girth hitch them to three trees (with appropriate angles between them). Attatch a biner to each end, then use static rope/sling to self equailize (attatch to all three biners, then pull down two loops and attatch with biner). Then, to extend over the edge would I simply use two loops of webbing, both with a figure eight at each end? Then biners then rope? Thanks
Seems overly complex. That leads me to suspect that you _really_ need to have someone check what you're doing (as you indicated you would). And, I suspect that the advice you're going to get here will confuse the situation even more.
Think about what you're rigging.
Try and keep it simple.
Make sure that there is redundancy between the master point (where the climbing rope is) and your anchors.
Make sure to inspect & question it.
|
|
|
|
|
michael1245
Dec 31, 2010, 2:51 PM
Post #4 of 16
(4253 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 23, 2010
Posts: 247
|
jcd82 wrote: I've been looking into doing some top roping in a park nearby and am looking for some clarification on the setup (know that I won't go out and climb on this with out some one who actually knows what they're doing. And I know, I could take a class but I suppose I'm just curious as to if this will work. I'll learn more later). After reading some threads and sections in books this is the plan: Use loops of webbing tied with a water knot and girth hitch them to three trees (with appropriate angles between them). Attatch a biner to each end, then use static rope/sling to self equailize (attatch to all three biners, then pull down two loops and attatch with biner). Then, to extend over the edge would I simply use two loops of webbing, both with a figure eight at each end? Then biners then rope? Thanks
let me take a shot at this...
as you described, the tree anchors (webbing, water knot, girth hitch, proper angles) sounds good. of course, make sure you have some take a look at it first.
after that, it gets a little tricky...
Can I suggest a book? Craig Luebben's Rock Climbing Anchors. A similiar set-up is detailed on page 125. Wish I could scan the page and post it for you to see.
|
|
|
|
|
bozeclimb
Dec 31, 2010, 5:17 PM
Post #5 of 16
(4218 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 14
|
Luebben's book was the first I bought, and that would be a great start. My take is that no one ever died from having too strong an anchor. This sounds like more than you need, but it is important to feel safe. Just be cautious of something that is so complex that you cannot easily inspect it. I do think it is important to ask what elements you think might fail (will a tree break?) and have a backup. Remember, if you determine something won't fail, you are betting a lot on that judgment. Be safe!
(This post was edited by bozeclimb on Dec 31, 2010, 5:18 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
AntinJ
Dec 31, 2010, 6:12 PM
Post #6 of 16
(4202 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2008
Posts: 475
|
jcd82 wrote: (attatch to all three biners, then pull down two loops and attatch with biner).
Don't forget to create a "master point" by tying an overhand or figure-8 knot so your anchor will be "Non-Extending".
Have fun!
Jason
|
|
|
|
|
chadnsc
Dec 31, 2010, 7:37 PM
Post #7 of 16
(4184 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449
|
dbogardus wrote: jcd82 wrote: I've been looking into doing some top roping in a park nearby and am looking for some clarification on the setup (know that I won't go out and climb on this with out some one who actually knows what they're doing. And I know, I could take a class but I suppose I'm just curious as to if this will work. I'll learn more later). After reading some threads and sections in books this is the plan: Use loops of webbing tied with a water knot and girth hitch them to three trees (with appropriate angles between them). Attatch a biner to each end, then use static rope/sling to self equailize (attatch to all three biners, then pull down two loops and attatch with biner). Then, to extend over the edge would I simply use two loops of webbing, both with a figure eight at each end? Then biners then rope? Thanks While the concept of having three anchor points is sound, all you really need is one strong tree for a TR anchor.But don't take my word for it...
Hmmm, well if the single tree was alive, huge (three feet plus in diameter) , and with good root structure then yes use a single tree.
Better yet use two trees, both alive with a trunk at least 12" in diameter with a good root structure. That way your anchor will have some redundancy.
Girth hitch your slings around the base of each tree.
|
|
|
|
|
dbogardus
Dec 31, 2010, 7:56 PM
Post #8 of 16
(4175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 148
|
chadnsc wrote: Hmmm, well if the single tree was alive, huge (three feet plus in diameter) , and with good root structure then yes use a single tree.
yes, one strong tree.
however, all else being the same, i'd definitely build a TR anchor on a sub 3 foot (in diameter) tree.
|
|
|
|
|
chadnsc
Dec 31, 2010, 7:59 PM
Post #9 of 16
(4170 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449
|
dbogardus wrote: chadnsc wrote: Hmmm, well if the single tree was alive, huge (three feet plus in diameter) , and with good root structure then yes use a single tree. yes, one strong tree. however, all else being the same, i'd definitely build a TR anchor on a sub 3 foot (in diameter) tree.
A single sub three foot diamiter tree?
If so at what diamiter do you think that adding a second tree is warrented?
|
|
|
|
|
dbogardus
Dec 31, 2010, 8:27 PM
Post #10 of 16
(4156 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 148
|
chadnsc wrote: dbogardus wrote: chadnsc wrote: Hmmm, well if the single tree was alive, huge (three feet plus in diameter) , and with good root structure then yes use a single tree. yes, one strong tree. however, all else being the same, i'd definitely build a TR anchor on a sub 3 foot (in diameter) tree. A single sub three foot diamiter tree? If so at what diamiter do you think that adding a second tree is warrented?
I wouldn't base my decision off of only that one criteria, but rather many. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I would certainly build a TR anchor on a healthy 2 foot tree with deep roots a few feet back from the cliff's edge.
IMO, the judgment aspect inherent in climbing is the most intriguing and why I enjoy it so much.
I think the bottom line is that, even with basic top rope set ups, the OP needs to understand basic concepts and not just hard and fast rules. And then learn to make her own judgements based on her situation.
|
|
|
|
|
chadnsc
Dec 31, 2010, 8:44 PM
Post #11 of 16
(4144 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449
|
dbogardus wrote: chadnsc wrote: dbogardus wrote: chadnsc wrote: Hmmm, well if the single tree was alive, huge (three feet plus in diameter) , and with good root structure then yes use a single tree. yes, one strong tree. however, all else being the same, i'd definitely build a TR anchor on a sub 3 foot (in diameter) tree. A single sub three foot diamiter tree? If so at what diamiter do you think that adding a second tree is warrented? I wouldn't base my decision off of only that one criteria, but rather many. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I would certainly build a TR anchor on a healthy 2 foot tree with deep roots a few feet back from the cliff's edge. IMO, the judgment aspect inherent in climbing is the most intriguing and why I enjoy it so much. I think the bottom line is that, even with basic top rope set ups, the OP needs to understand basic concepts and not just hard and fast rules. And then learn to make her own judgements based on her situation.
Oh I agree with you.
Each situation and climbing area is different thus my question to when you'd use a second tree.
In my backyard the healthy trees within 30 feet of the cliff edge are generally 8-20" in diameter with medium to shallow root systems within the rock. Because of this we tend to use two separate trees.
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
Dec 31, 2010, 10:15 PM
Post #12 of 16
(4124 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
chadnsc wrote: dbogardus wrote: chadnsc wrote: dbogardus wrote: chadnsc wrote: Hmmm, well if the single tree was alive, huge (three feet plus in diameter) , and with good root structure then yes use a single tree. yes, one strong tree. however, all else being the same, i'd definitely build a TR anchor on a sub 3 foot (in diameter) tree. A single sub three foot diamiter tree? If so at what diamiter do you think that adding a second tree is warrented? I wouldn't base my decision off of only that one criteria, but rather many. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I would certainly build a TR anchor on a healthy 2 foot tree with deep roots a few feet back from the cliff's edge. IMO, the judgment aspect inherent in climbing is the most intriguing and why I enjoy it so much. I think the bottom line is that, even with basic top rope set ups, the OP needs to understand basic concepts and not just hard and fast rules. And then learn to make her own judgements based on her situation. Oh I agree with you. Each situation and climbing area is different thus my question to when you'd use a second tree. In my backyard the healthy trees within 30 feet of the cliff edge are generally 8-20" in diameter with medium to shallow root systems within the rock. Because of this we tend to use two separate trees.
|
|
|
|
|
bearbreeder
Dec 31, 2010, 10:50 PM
Post #13 of 16
(4117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
|
6" is more than enough ... though as women say the thicker the bettah 
|
|
|
|
|
chadnsc
Dec 31, 2010, 10:54 PM
Post #14 of 16
(4114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449
|
marc801 wrote: chadnsc wrote: dbogardus wrote: chadnsc wrote: dbogardus wrote: chadnsc wrote: Hmmm, well if the single tree was alive, huge (three feet plus in diameter) , and with good root structure then yes use a single tree. yes, one strong tree. however, all else being the same, i'd definitely build a TR anchor on a sub 3 foot (in diameter) tree. A single sub three foot diamiter tree? If so at what diamiter do you think that adding a second tree is warrented? I wouldn't base my decision off of only that one criteria, but rather many. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I would certainly build a TR anchor on a healthy 2 foot tree with deep roots a few feet back from the cliff's edge. IMO, the judgment aspect inherent in climbing is the most intriguing and why I enjoy it so much. I think the bottom line is that, even with basic top rope set ups, the OP needs to understand basic concepts and not just hard and fast rules. And then learn to make her own judgements based on her situation. Oh I agree with you. Each situation and climbing area is different thus my question to when you'd use a second tree. In my backyard the healthy trees within 30 feet of the cliff edge are generally 8-20" in diameter with medium to shallow root systems within the rock. Because of this we tend to use two separate trees. Two and three *feet* in diameter??? Are you guys nucking futs? If it's alive and in good shape, a single 3" (yes, inches) diameter tree at the base is more than adequate for a TR anchor.
Your sweeping, over generalized statement on this topic show that either you're trolling or an idiot, perhaps both.
|
|
|
|
|
the_loz
Jan 2, 2011, 7:29 PM
Post #15 of 16
(3987 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 25, 2010
Posts: 1
|
jcd82 wrote: I've been looking into doing some top roping in a park nearby and am looking for some clarification on the setup (know that I won't go out and climb on this with out some one who actually knows what they're doing. And I know, I could take a class but I suppose I'm just curious as to if this will work. I'll learn more later). After reading some threads and sections in books this is the plan: Use loops of webbing tied with a water knot and girth hitch them to three trees (with appropriate angles between them). Attatch a biner to each end, then use static rope/sling to self equailize (attatch to all three biners, then pull down two loops and attatch with biner). Then, to extend over the edge would I simply use two loops of webbing, both with a figure eight at each end? Then biners then rope? Thanks
As you can tell from all the posts on this thread there are many different ways of setting up a top rope. It depends on too many factors so you will not be able to get a good answer from a forum. Its great that you are trying the gain the required knowledge but the only true way would be to go climbing with someone that knows what they are doing. The best way would be to get an instructor to help you.
I would agree with many of, it not all of the comments on this thread. They would all be right in certain situations. As you are new to the sport, I would not recommend making such judgement calls such as one tree or two. Err on the side of caution and go for two.
Most of all - get an instructor to show you and practice it.
|
|
|
|
|
dbogardus
Jan 2, 2011, 8:12 PM
Post #16 of 16
(3972 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 148
|
marc801 wrote: Two and three *feet* in diameter??? Are you guys nucking futs? If it's alive and in good shape, a single 3" (yes, inches) diameter tree at the base is more than adequate for a TR anchor.
My suggestion of two feet was merely an example of a tree smaller than his minimum of three feet.
Please explain how I'm fucking nuts. You may want to review the below link before replying.
http://www.abcteach.com/...ctice_language_1.pdf
|
|
|
|
|
|
