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tower_climber
Jan 12, 2011, 12:47 AM
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When I climb, I carry an ATC to rap off the anchors. It is a fairly simple process (IMHO).
Recently I heard some people talking about rapping off the top of the climb with a GriGri. I'm confused as to exactly how this would work with a standard sport lead setup. Can someone explain?
(I'm not planning on doing it, as I figure I'd probably die. But I'm very curious)
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potreroed
Jan 12, 2011, 1:23 AM
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With a grigri you can only rap using one strand of rope so you have to set it up accordingly. You can either put a knot in the rope which will jam against the anchor, or put a knot in the rope with a locking biner through it which is then clipped through the other strand below the anchor. Either way you have to make sure you are putting the weight on the right strand. Since both of these options have their drawbacks it is rare to see people rapping with grigris. Where the grigri really shines is when you are rapping a single fixed rope or when you are simul-rapping with a partner.
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rtwilli4
Jan 12, 2011, 1:24 AM
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For some reason many people have gone to using auto-locking devices on multi-pitch climbs. I guess they think it's safer?... you got me.
Anyways, there is a method that allows you to rap on one rope or one side of the rope with a grigri or cinch or whatever and still be able to pull the rope. I can't remember the name but it starts with an R. It's too complicated for me to describe here so hopefully someone will post up with a good diagram.
There was an accident involving improper use of this technique in Yosemite within the last two years in which a climber died. He forgot to add a backup to the system. I remember there being a link to a good diagram in that thread but I couldn't find it.
The short answer is that it's a complicated method that can be avoided by simply belaying with, or at least carrying an ATC or similar device.
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tower_climber
Jan 12, 2011, 3:27 AM
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Ok ok, I see it now.
I was trying to think about how I use the GriGri for self-belay single-rope access on towers and courses (either line fixed at the bottom and over high point or rope tied in to harness a la arborist method) and neither made sense in the context of rapping off a route.
I've used a similar setup to the Reepschnur when rigging pull-down rappels for caving, but for some reason it didn't even occur to me in this instance.
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dugl33
Jan 12, 2011, 3:55 AM
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tower_climber wrote: Ok ok, I see it now. I was trying to think about how I use the GriGri for self-belay single-rope access on towers and courses (either line fixed at the bottom and over high point or rope tied in to harness a la arborist method) and neither made sense in the context of rapping off a route. I've used a similar setup to the Reepschnur when rigging pull-down rappels for caving, but for some reason it didn't even occur to me in this instance.
If your anchor has decent lowering hardware you can essentially lower yourself -- the rope is tied into your harness, goes through the rings, and into the grigri clipped into your belay donut. Feed out the rope just like lowering a leader.
Of course this only works if you're half a rope length or less off the ground. duh. 
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potreroed
Jan 12, 2011, 4:02 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote: For some reason many people have gone to using auto-locking devices on multi-pitch climbs. I guess they think it's safer?... you got me.
The reason is that the grigri gives you an extra margin of safety and I'm living proof of that. When I had my big accident 4 years ago my belayer was knocked out cold but monsieur grigri saved the day. I also know of two other similar incidents where the belayer was incapacitated but the grigri did its job.
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potreroed
Jan 12, 2011, 5:03 PM
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dugl33 wrote: tower_climber wrote: Ok ok, I see it now. I was trying to think about how I use the GriGri for self-belay single-rope access on towers and courses (either line fixed at the bottom and over high point or rope tied in to harness a la arborist method) and neither made sense in the context of rapping off a route. I've used a similar setup to the Reepschnur when rigging pull-down rappels for caving, but for some reason it didn't even occur to me in this instance. If your anchor has decent lowering hardware you can essentially lower yourself -- the rope is tied into your harness, goes through the rings, and into the grigri clipped into your belay donut. Feed out the rope just like lowering a leader. Of course this only works if you're half a rope length or less off the ground. duh.
I wouldn't recommend this system as it can twist the hell out of your rope.
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darkgift06
Jan 12, 2011, 5:43 PM
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considering you always climb with a partner, you can both rap at the same time one person per strand.
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Adk
Jan 30, 2011, 7:04 PM
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darkgift06 wrote: considering you always climb with a partner, you can both rap at the same time one person per strand.
Saved as a possible new signature!!!
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iknowfear
Jan 30, 2011, 7:17 PM
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darkgift06 wrote: considering you always climb with a partner, you can both rap at the same time one person per strand.
cool. One fall - twice the fun!
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cmagee1
Feb 2, 2011, 7:29 AM
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darkgift06 wrote: considering you always climb with a partner, you can both rap at the same time one person per strand.
Sounds like a perverted game of tug of war except instead of falling in the mud you fall to your death or paralysis.
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testpilot
Feb 2, 2011, 8:16 AM
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I try to do risky things like rappelling one way, the same way every time no matter what type of climbing Im doing. If its rappelling its rappelling and for that I've trained myself to use an atc type device in every instance. IMHO when you start doing all kinds of different things rappelling you add all different types of ways to the mix to really screw up. Stick to what works and avoid doing dumb shit like "simul rapping on each strand of the rope with each guy using a gri gri." (wtf man? n00bs read these forums.)
Now for belaying I would agree with what potreroed said...the "auto" catch is nice for safety concerns but when youre rapping, stick to the tube device that is cheap, light and relatively simple....
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darkgift06
Feb 2, 2011, 8:32 PM
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Adk wrote: darkgift06 wrote: considering you always climb with a partner, you can both rap at the same time one person per strand. Saved as a possible new signature!!!
simul-rapping was mentioned above... I suppose my wording was off...
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Adk
Feb 2, 2011, 10:19 PM
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darkgift06 wrote: Adk wrote: darkgift06 wrote: considering you always climb with a partner, you can both rap at the same time one person per strand. Saved as a possible new signature!!! simul-rapping was mentioned above... I suppose my wording was off...
It must have been.
(This post was edited by Adk on Feb 21, 2011, 1:42 PM)
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