Otherwise, there's always Joshua Tree. I haven't been there yet (pathetic for a Californian. I've really got to go soon), but rarely do I hear anybody knock it.

You live in Tennessee dude! The Red, The New, all the stuff around Chattanooga!

The east has the best sport climbing besides a few select areas out west. If you were climbing 5.13 I might say go to Rifle or Smith but at you're grade you should just go spend a month at the Red. THEN... AFTER THE RED... go spend the rest of your time at the New.

If you really want to go out west you should look into UT. St. George has lots of sport but the stuff at your grade isn't the most classic. Maple Canyon and American Fork are kinda the same. Mill Creek, while very small, does have some excellent 5.10 and 5.11. Not enough climbs to be a destination but some of the better sport I've done in the US.

Seriously... you're crazy to go out west. You couldn't have possibly climbed all of the 5.11's w/in your weekend territory.

The west is pretty huge. You get great views, position, exposure. But in my experience the rock in the east is just meant for hard single pitch climbing (aka sport climbing). You'll find bomber solid rock out west, but I didn't climb any bolted rock as solid as the Nuttal Sandstone at the New. I'm kind of a trad climber though so maybe that means more to me.

I'm territorial. No one will ever convince me that the climbing is any better out west that it is in the east (even though it is probably better in CA). !

For sure man... you gotta explore. But I hope you've been to the New... It's some of the best sport climbing I've ever done and the trad is even better.

How did such a committed trad climber ever spend so much time on Phi Phi, perhaps one of the world worse climbing destinations.

First of all, I said that I'm "kind of a trad climber." I wouldn't call myself "committed" to any kind of climbing. I climb whatever happens to be nearby the place that I want to live.

On Phi Phi, I had a job that I loved, and by Thai standards my salary, standard of living, and vacation time were amazing. I was able to come and go as I pleased and use Phi Phi as a base to explore SE Asia. I could travel anywhere, anytime, knowing that I had a job and a free place to live when I got back to the island. I helped out a local family for three years, ensuring that they would have a way to earn money forever. The tsunami destroyed the lives of a lot of people... i was able to help some of them put their lives back together. So I guess the answer is, I was able to spend time there because of a lot of things other than climbing.

To call it the worst climbing destination in the world is pretty strong. Sure there are tons of parties at night, lots of drunk young tourists, and the island is over crowded. But some people enjoy a little bit of the modern world mixed in with their simple life (gasp).

As far as as the climbing goes, there is unlimited potential for first ascents, and some of the biggest rock climbs in Thailand, all in my front yard. The rock is just as good as anywhere else in SE Asia, including your beloved Phang Nga Town park. Maybe you just don't climb the grade that it takes to have a good time on Thai limestone?

I've been all over the world my friend. Phang Nga is great... but it's not the only great place in the world to live. You might have found your paradise, and that is wonderful. Maybe it's time to realize that everyone's paradise is different. The vast majority of the people I know, climbers or not, wouldn't want to live in Phang Nga, Phi Phi, Tonsai, or anywhere else in SE Asia.

I think it's time you get up off your high horse, stop ranting about capitalism, crowding, etc, and explore the world again. You told me yourself that you haven't been to Phi Phi or Tonsai since the 90's. How can you sit back and talk about places that you haven't seen since one of the biggest natural disasters in history completely changed them all? I for one am a bit tired of it.

You're right man... I totally confused you with someone else so you can disregard the second half of that post. So sorry. It wasn't intended for you!

As for Phi Phi, I hope I didn't mislead you. In fact I wish I would have told you more about it so that you could have had a better time.

I don't think I would even call the island a climbing destination. The only thing it's really a destination for is partying, but there are many other things to do. For people going to climb, I usually recommend a week. I also mostly recommend it to 5.8 to 5.10 climbers and I think you are climbing harder than that.

From our emails a few weeks ago, it seems as if you did miss a lot of the best climbing though. Summiting Tonsai Tower and doing the ledge routes that start 100 meters up the wall is pretty amazing. I think I asked if you did this and you didn't answer. The rest of Tonsai Tower isn't anything to write home about. It's really great for beginners though.

Also, if I recall correctly, you didn't climb at Hin Tak, Ao Nui, Ao Ling, or at any of the areas on Phi Phi Leh. I wish you would have... they are all pretty awesome. Much better position than TT or the Drinking wall and better climbing as well.

Either way, I think that Phi Phi is a tough place to get a feel for. If I didn't have work and friends there I would not step foot on the island. In fact, I skipped over it the first time I went through Thailand and didn't go there until after I had already been offered a job. I planned to stay for a month or two and fell in love around the 6 week mark.

It's wild, crazy, and not really my scene. However, by living there, I am able to find my own scene and avoid most of the madness... unless I want to go out, then I can do that too.

I think it also makes a difference that I had a trad rack, a drill, and a boat. I kind of fell into a cool situation where this was all available to me and most people don't get to have that experience in Thailand. Being able to search out new areas with the intention of new routing definitely changed my perspective on the entire country. I'm not sure how good of a time I'd have there if I was just visiting.

Anyways, sorry again for the mix up. Wasn't trying to start a fight (not with you anyways). Take care.

Owens Gorge + Clark Canyon (CA)

And even more rarely have I heard anyone recommend it as the place to find the top 5 sport climbs. In fact - you're the first. And... last.

GO