If you've been climbing for any length of time, you're generally not going to be climbing in areas where there's a high density of noob groups. Usually they stay pretty restricted to places with a high concentration of easy routes.

It's not about "sheer numbers". It's about how those "sheer numbers" are broken up.

Thanks for the breakdown. I can see how the group size can make everyone louder. I'm not sure that the exploded bags or general space occupied is caused by the group - I think it's more a function of the number of people and their experience level. Of course, there's no way to tell, and it's probably moot anyway. The less experienced people probably wouldn't be out there without the group.

On non-climbers: I was thinking more about Sugarloaf and Annapolis Rocks, where there is significant overlap with non-climbers. At Great Falls, you're right, it's not much of an issue.

In any event, I'll raise these issues with the other organizers before we run any events in the spring. We'll do what we can to limit our impact, keep group sizes down, etc. There will always be newbies out there, including the ones in our group.

If you've been climbing for any length of time, you're generally not going to be climbing in areas where there's a high density of noob groups. Usually they stay pretty restricted to places with a high concentration of easy routes.

My God - you're dense if that's how you interpret my post.

Jay is just an ass that talks shit but I'm certain has learned everything he knows about climbing off the internet. He probably went outside once, left his bailing draw on a 5.9 and scurried back to his gym to tell all the noobs there his tales of outdoor greatness.

If you've been climbing for any length of time, you're generally not going to be climbing in areas where there's a high density of noob groups. Usually they stay pretty restricted to places with a high concentration of easy routes.

No, you're dense if you call a statement "dumbass," and then make the exact same statement word for word.

As to this asinine comment:


In the future you can save yourself a lot of embarrassment by checking someone's public climbing profile before making ridiculous accusations about what they have and haven't climbed.

Of the two of us, only you climb with Meetup groups, which speaks to which of us is the n00b.

Jay

I kin reed purdy good, Jr. But I can also smell your BS way over here in MI.

You might wanna check MY online climbing profile before you call ME a noob.

And if you honestly can't pick up the point I was making then you should probably stick to the autobelay at the gym (and probably avoid a climbing gym-just start at one of those little towers they have at festivals) - those figure 8s are gonna be a bit too complicated for you.

How about somebody offer evidence that there are more accidents from meetups group events than from the general population.

Fact of the matter is all of us who are dissing these groups are doing so precisely because we've repeatedly witnessed dangerous practices among them.

Jay

Not directed at you Jay, just using your quote...

With all the arguments about Meetups being a lot of n00bz doing stoopid and dangerous things, is it responsible of us to be suggesting meetups to people in the beginner forum?

I know there are people who organize them here, and if you're running the show in a responsible manner, feel free to offer your meetup group... but for the others?

Just threw this poll up to get a general opinion, and it seems pretty common that these groups can often do more harm than good for a new kid who's looking to learn.

Food for thought?

How 'bout you show otherwise.

Fact of the matter is all of us who are dissing these groups are doing so precisely because we've repeatedly witnessed dangerous practices among them.

Jay

I'm just saying that you've all also repeatedly seen non-meetup people doing stupid things and I'll call anyone who denies that a liar.

But I'm not so idiotic as to take limited data and skew things because I'm prejudiced against one group or the other.

Why do you refuse to accept that any new climber is an idiot if they don't carefully select who they're climbing with, and anyone who tries to teach people shit they don't know for themselves is a dangerous ass regardless of what group the individual does or doesn't belong to?

It's OK, Jay. I get that you're not really any good at anything and thus your sole source of self esteem comes from thinking that people think you're smart - even when your wrong. You can make another statement with logic an eight year old would be proud of, back it up with fictitious estimates and I won't reply so you can sleep tonight thinking that someone believes you're right. (even though at this point even you know you're you're full of it and are stretching the truth because you can't stand for people to think you were wrong.)

any new climber is an idiot if they don't carefully select who they're climbing with

This is probably not the place for my question but the above sentence underscores my situation.

I'm a former skydiver (11 years) who left the sport to have a baby. Now, a single mama with a 5 year old, I've discovered climbing.

I don't have a ton time to hang out at the gym trying to get people's attention. I'm not there enough for any of the regular climbers to even notice me - and honestly, I feel weird about interrupting people while they are climbing (maybe lack of social skills applies here?).

I've asked the staff at the gym for advice on how to learn - advice was "make friends".

So my question is, do good/experienced climbers spend time teaching/talking to noobs? And how can I be choosy when I don't have much to choose from?

In skydiving, there is training. And mentoring. And advanced training. And skygod training. And ways to make the most of your time learning.

To stay on topic, I joined a meetup group about a week ago and my post hasn't even been viewed, yet.

If you don't suggest meetups (and they aren't consistently productive/educational), what do you suggest?

since the haters dont usually give any alternatives ...

- make friends ... flashing boobays usually works
- join a meetup, outdoor groups or other such "gumby newb" organization
- join the alpine club, or other such more respectable org ... fees usually apply
- take a course with a guide ... costs less at certain time and places, like festivals
- internet forums or climbfind ...
-get yr gumby new friends toghether and a good anchor book ... and start trying

all of them except for the guides do entail certain risks and an evaluation of the ability of those you climb with ... but thats why its free ... and guides arent

the next "safest" is the alpine club, or mountaineering club ... they should have a history of training newb members ... they may not rock climb a ton ... but they should be very knowledgeable in anchors, ropework, rescue, etc ...

after that as a climber you do have the responsibility to educate yourself, either through reading material or asking questions, about those youll climb with (you actually always have that responsibility) ... you always have the option of not climbing with that person or group if you dont feel safe

i suggest picking up a copy of craig lubbens anchor book and practice his anchors at home over and over again ....... its not rocket science ...

move on from there ...

a lot of meetups start in the gym, climb with them first there ... some gyms have practice anchors bolts you can use ... ask the meetup guys to help you pratice setups ... you can get an idea if they know how to set up a bolted top rope before heading out ... if they cant do that, thats a problem

youll find here that everyone loves to tell you what to do .... and if you dont youre gonna die !!!

off the internet, people just climb and have fun ... and no they dont usually die ...