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theapollo
Jan 25, 2011, 9:23 PM
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Has anyone tried using a full rack of these for short climbs? Like a 6-7 cam rack for 80 ft climbs or below
(This post was edited by theapollo on Jan 25, 2011, 9:24 PM)
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jo247
Jan 25, 2011, 10:32 PM
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Linkcam is more (to me) like a backup cam, that you'll use only in case nothing else fits in the crack.
Don't buy 6-7 of them .... they're like 115 bucks each ! Anyways, that's only my opinion.
They're pretty heavy too, just sayin' ! have a nice climb!
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MS1
Jan 25, 2011, 11:01 PM
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theapollo wrote: Has anyone tried using a full rack of these for short climbs? Like a 6-7 cam rack for 80 ft climbs or below
At least one person on this site (suprasoup) seems to rack up that way, but most people avoid it. Such a rack would be heavy, expensive, and occasionally unsafe (depending on the nature of the placements available). Don't get me wrong, I love having a link on my rack as a backup piece, but I wouldn't want to rely on them exclusively.
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theapollo
Jan 26, 2011, 12:49 AM
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MS1 wrote: theapollo wrote: Has anyone tried using a full rack of these for short climbs? Like a 6-7 cam rack for 80 ft climbs or below At least one person on this site (suprasoup) seems to rack up that way, but most people avoid it. Such a rack would be heavy, expensive, and occasionally unsafe (depending on the nature of the placements available). Don't get me wrong, I love having a link on my rack as a backup piece, but I wouldn't want to rely on them exclusively.
Why just a back up piece? Do you not trust them like normal cams? And i guess it would be a lot heavier, but definitely a lot lighter than a full rack on long climbs. And expensive-well I was trying to overlook that haha
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swoopee
Jan 26, 2011, 4:07 AM
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jo247 wrote: Linkcam is more (to me) like a backup cam, that you'll use only in case nothing else fits in the crack. Don't buy 6-7 of them .... they're like 115 bucks each ! Anyways, that's only my opinion. They're pretty heavy too, just sayin' ! have a nice climb!
I wouldn't mind having a couple of them but I'd probably have to get a job to pay for them. 
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byran
Jan 26, 2011, 4:13 AM
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If you're only climbing 80 ft routes I don't see what the advantage would be over a standard rack of Friends or Camalots. Just look up at the thing and take the sizes you need.
The only reason I could see for carrying a rack of just Link Cams would be on a 4th - easy 5th alpine ridge or something, where you only want to carry a few cams but still cover a range of sizes.
If you're talking about buying a bunch of Link Cams to make up your first rack, I don't recommend it. You'll probably just get them stuck.
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theapollo
Jan 26, 2011, 5:35 AM
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byran wrote: If you're only climbing 80 ft routes I don't see what the advantage would be over a standard rack of Friends or Camalots. Just look up at the thing and take the sizes you need. The only reason I could see for carrying a rack of just Link Cams would be on a 4th - easy 5th alpine ridge or something, where you only want to carry a few cams but still cover a range of sizes. If you're talking about buying a bunch of Link Cams to make up your first rack, I don't recommend it. You'll probably just get them stuck.
I don't only climb 80 foot routes, but they are a portion of the routes I do climb. It's definitely not my first rack, been climbing for ten years and have a good rack. But if I can make life simpler by only carrying six cams for a single route, I want to consider that as a viable option.
The advantage I see is some placements are difficult to see from the ground. For instance, this summer I was working on a .13b route and couldn't see three or four of my placements because I was staring up into the sun. Now I'm not saying you should ever plug a blind cam, because that's one of the least safe things you can do as a trad climber. But if you don't know what the placement is until you get up there, then link cams are perfect. That's the way I look at it, but I'm not saying you're wrong either. I'm just getting people's opinions
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healyje
Jan 26, 2011, 6:11 AM
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Link Cams certainly wouldn't be my first choice for blind, stabbing placements, matter of fact they'd come right after Max Cams as being a bad idea for the job. The attributes that make them not qualify as "normal" cams are the same attributes that require a more 'informed' placement. In general you can do it and probably get away with it 99 time out of 100, but I wouldn't want to have to count on the 100th one.
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guangzhou
Jan 26, 2011, 6:56 AM
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I like the link cams, got a couple before they even hit the shelves. If I didn't already have a few set of Camelots, I would consider using just link cams on my rack.
I've heard, and see it here again, people claim they are a nice back up piece, but I remember climbers telling me that about cams in the 80's, they were a nice back up to hexes.
In Colorado I ran into a guide who had a double set of link cams and a set of stoppers as a rack.
Advantages to link cams, especially on hard routes, is that the caming range of each unit makes it easier to find the correct size.
I've fallen on mine and see no problems. I would like to see stronger trigger cables, but beyond that, I am happy with them.
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healyje
Jan 26, 2011, 7:06 AM
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guangzhou wrote: Advantages to link cams, especially on hard routes, is that the caming range of each unit makes it easier to find the correct size.
Yes, that is a distinct advantage of them.
guangzhou wrote: I've fallen on mine and see no problems. I would like to see stronger trigger cables, but beyond that, I am happy with them.
That you've fallen on them and they held you does not mean there are "no 'problems'" whether you see them or not.
The 'problem' with them - and I don't mean problem in the usual sense of the word, but rather only in instances of inappropriate placement / application - is they are prone to breaking if they have to rotate significantly under a load in order to align with with the forces involved with the fall. You don't want them placed in such an orientation or in circumstances where the stem will be leveraged over an obstacle.
In short you don't want to place them such where, in a fall, lateral forces will be applied to the somewhat fragile cam lobe links. And that's always a risk with desperate and blind placements, and why they are inappropriate for such use. Use them as intended and in a way that maximizes their advantages and they are 'perfect' - but for blind stabs in the dark? Slam home a BD or Metolius...
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guangzhou
Jan 26, 2011, 7:18 AM
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healyje wrote: guangzhou wrote: Advantages to link cams, especially on hard routes, is that the caming range of each unit makes it easier to find the correct size. Yes, that is a distinct advantage of them. guangzhou wrote: I've fallen on mine and see no problems. I would like to see stronger trigger cables, but beyond that, I am happy with them. That you've fallen on them and they held you does not mean there are "no 'problems'" whether you see them or not. The 'problem' with them - and I don't mean problem in the usual sense of the word, but rather only in instances of inappropriate placement / application - is they are prone to breaking if they have to rotate significantly under a load in order to align with with the forces involved with the fall. You don't want them placed in such an orientation or in circumstances where the stem will be leveraged over an obstacle. In short you don't want to place them such where, in a fall, lateral forces will be applied to the somewhat fragile cam lobe links. And that's always a risk with desperate and blind placements, and why they are inappropriate for such use. Use them as intended and in a way that maximizes their advantages and they are 'perfect' - but for blind stabs in the dark? Slam home a BD or Metolius...
So the problem with them is that they don't work when they are placed incorrectly?
A blind placement is a blind placement, you can screw it up regardless of which cam you use.
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healyje
Jan 26, 2011, 7:49 AM
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No, you need to read that all again.
In reply to: A blind placement is a blind placement, you can screw it up regardless of which cam you use.
It's not a matter of 'screwing it up' - it's a matter of a greater likelihood of a Link Cam ending up placed unfavorable to it's weaknesses compared to a 'normal' cam. Ditto for Max Cams.
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csproul
Jan 26, 2011, 2:40 PM
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theapollo wrote: byran wrote: If you're only climbing 80 ft routes I don't see what the advantage would be over a standard rack of Friends or Camalots. Just look up at the thing and take the sizes you need. The only reason I could see for carrying a rack of just Link Cams would be on a 4th - easy 5th alpine ridge or something, where you only want to carry a few cams but still cover a range of sizes. If you're talking about buying a bunch of Link Cams to make up your first rack, I don't recommend it. You'll probably just get them stuck. I don't only climb 80 foot routes, but they are a portion of the routes I do climb. It's definitely not my first rack, been climbing for ten years and have a good rack. But if I can make life simpler by only carrying six cams for a single route, I want to consider that as a viable option. The advantage I see is some placements are difficult to see from the ground. For instance, this summer I was working on a .13b route and couldn't see three or four of my placements because I was staring up into the sun. Now I'm not saying you should ever plug a blind cam, because that's one of the least safe things you can do as a trad climber. But if you don't know what the placement is until you get up there, then link cams are perfect. That's the way I look at it, but I'm not saying you're wrong either. I'm just getting people's opinions
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amyas
Jan 26, 2011, 4:22 PM
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opinionsSeriously...you've been climbing for 10 years and are climbing 13b trad, and you have to ask a bunch of people on the internet advice about what gear to use?
yeah man 13b trad is pretty badass, so the guys you climb with must be as well, they've got to have some way better advice than most of us could give.
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theapollo
Jan 26, 2011, 6:35 PM
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csproul wrote: theapollo wrote: byran wrote: If you're only climbing 80 ft routes I don't see what the advantage would be over a standard rack of Friends or Camalots. Just look up at the thing and take the sizes you need. The only reason I could see for carrying a rack of just Link Cams would be on a 4th - easy 5th alpine ridge or something, where you only want to carry a few cams but still cover a range of sizes. If you're talking about buying a bunch of Link Cams to make up your first rack, I don't recommend it. You'll probably just get them stuck. I don't only climb 80 foot routes, but they are a portion of the routes I do climb. It's definitely not my first rack, been climbing for ten years and have a good rack. But if I can make life simpler by only carrying six cams for a single route, I want to consider that as a viable option. The advantage I see is some placements are difficult to see from the ground. For instance, this summer I was working on a .13b route and couldn't see three or four of my placements because I was staring up into the sun. Now I'm not saying you should ever plug a blind cam, because that's one of the least safe things you can do as a trad climber. But if you don't know what the placement is until you get up there, then link cams are perfect. That's the way I look at it, but I'm not saying you're wrong either. I'm just getting people's opinions Seriously...you've been climbing for 10 years and are climbing 13b trad, and you have to ask a bunch of people on the internet advice about what gear to use?
I like to get a general consensus rather than just one person. I have the #1 link cam right now, and i like how it places, but there are a bunch of people who have different opinions about the poor quality of a placement a link cam gives. So it led me to wonder. It's not really advice so much as it is I want people's opinion and input on the subject.
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theapollo
Jan 26, 2011, 6:38 PM
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I climb with one guy if i climb trad (multipitch routes anyway, single pitch trad you only have to trust the belay of your partner. If i do multipitch I have a hard time trusting placements of people I barely know, so i just don't do it.) He has never placed a link cam before. I do get his advice about lots of climbing aspects though
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healyje
Jan 26, 2011, 7:09 PM
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theapollo wrote: ...but there are a bunch of people who have different opinions about the poor quality of a placement a link cam gives.
Don't take away the wrong message! Link Cams give very high quality placements when used appropriately. That's the key, use them appropriate to their advantages and avoid placements which expose their weakness.
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MS1
Jan 26, 2011, 8:41 PM
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theapollo wrote: csproul wrote: theapollo wrote: byran wrote: If you're only climbing 80 ft routes I don't see what the advantage would be over a standard rack of Friends or Camalots. Just look up at the thing and take the sizes you need. The only reason I could see for carrying a rack of just Link Cams would be on a 4th - easy 5th alpine ridge or something, where you only want to carry a few cams but still cover a range of sizes. If you're talking about buying a bunch of Link Cams to make up your first rack, I don't recommend it. You'll probably just get them stuck. I don't only climb 80 foot routes, but they are a portion of the routes I do climb. It's definitely not my first rack, been climbing for ten years and have a good rack. But if I can make life simpler by only carrying six cams for a single route, I want to consider that as a viable option. The advantage I see is some placements are difficult to see from the ground. For instance, this summer I was working on a .13b route and couldn't see three or four of my placements because I was staring up into the sun. Now I'm not saying you should ever plug a blind cam, because that's one of the least safe things you can do as a trad climber. But if you don't know what the placement is until you get up there, then link cams are perfect. That's the way I look at it, but I'm not saying you're wrong either. I'm just getting people's opinions Seriously...you've been climbing for 10 years and are climbing 13b trad, and you have to ask a bunch of people on the internet advice about what gear to use? I like to get a general consensus rather than just one person. I have the #1 link cam right now, and i like how it places, but there are a bunch of people who have different opinions about the poor quality of a placement a link cam gives. So it led me to wonder. It's not really advice so much as it is I want people's opinion and input on the subject.
For the use you described (onsighting or working routes where you don't have a good sense of the placements before climbing), depending solely on links seems like a bad idea to me. They can fail when loaded in a manner that puts torque on the lobe connections (as others have described), which makes them a bad choice for tight pods or highly featured cracks. Since your assumption is that you want them for when you don't know what the placements look like in advance, you could easily get up there and find out that links won't safely protect the route.
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guangzhou
Jan 27, 2011, 12:57 AM
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MS1 wrote: theapollo wrote: csproul wrote: theapollo wrote: byran wrote: If you're only climbing 80 ft routes I don't see what the advantage would be over a standard rack of Friends or Camalots. Just look up at the thing and take the sizes you need. The only reason I could see for carrying a rack of just Link Cams would be on a 4th - easy 5th alpine ridge or something, where you only want to carry a few cams but still cover a range of sizes. If you're talking about buying a bunch of Link Cams to make up your first rack, I don't recommend it. You'll probably just get them stuck. I don't only climb 80 foot routes, but they are a portion of the routes I do climb. It's definitely not my first rack, been climbing for ten years and have a good rack. But if I can make life simpler by only carrying six cams for a single route, I want to consider that as a viable option. The advantage I see is some placements are difficult to see from the ground. For instance, this summer I was working on a .13b route and couldn't see three or four of my placements because I was staring up into the sun. Now I'm not saying you should ever plug a blind cam, because that's one of the least safe things you can do as a trad climber. But if you don't know what the placement is until you get up there, then link cams are perfect. That's the way I look at it, but I'm not saying you're wrong either. I'm just getting people's opinions Seriously...you've been climbing for 10 years and are climbing 13b trad, and you have to ask a bunch of people on the internet advice about what gear to use? I like to get a general consensus rather than just one person. I have the #1 link cam right now, and i like how it places, but there are a bunch of people who have different opinions about the poor quality of a placement a link cam gives. So it led me to wonder. It's not really advice so much as it is I want people's opinion and input on the subject. For the use you described (onsighting or working routes where you don't have a good sense of the placements before climbing), depending solely on links seems like a bad idea to me. They can fail when loaded in a manner that puts torque on the lobe connections (as others have described), which makes them a bad choice for tight pods or highly featured cracks. Since your assumption is that you want them for when you don't know what the placements look like in advance, you could easily get up there and find out that links won't safely protect the route.
I have to admit, I broke a number 3 Camelot under the same circumstances. The placement was bad, I don't blame BD for the incident, it was my fault for not resetting the cam when it walked a bit after climbed above it.
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rtwilli4
Jan 28, 2011, 5:23 AM
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theapollo wrote: I climb with one guy if i climb trad (multipitch routes anyway, single pitch trad you only have to trust the belay of your partner. If i do multipitch I have a hard time trusting placements of people I barely know, so i just don't do it.) He has never placed a link cam before. I do get his advice about lots of climbing aspects though
I think the point that amyas was trying to make is that you have been climbing longer and climb much harder than most of the people on this site. So why are you asking this question here?
MY POINT would have been more like this:
Why does it matter what grade the climb was? How come every time you post up on this site you somehow sneak 5.13 in there?
I've read a few of your posts that have made me think I'd like to climb with you and a few others that have made me want to puke. Just a piece of advice... don't mention the grade you climb unless asked. You'll never look bad if you take that advice and you'll rarely look good if you don't.
Most of the time I've come off as an asshole (on this site and it real life) I mentioned the grade that I climb or the grade that someone else didn't climb. When I go back and read those posts or remember those arguments it makes me sick.
So take it from me now...for your own sake. Get over the 5.13 thing.
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theapollo
Jan 28, 2011, 2:25 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: theapollo wrote: I climb with one guy if i climb trad (multipitch routes anyway, single pitch trad you only have to trust the belay of your partner. If i do multipitch I have a hard time trusting placements of people I barely know, so i just don't do it.) He has never placed a link cam before. I do get his advice about lots of climbing aspects though I think the point that amyas was trying to make is that you have been climbing longer and climb much harder than most of the people on this site. So why are you asking this question here? MY POINT would have been more like this: Why does it matter what grade the climb was? How come every time you post up on this site you somehow sneak 5.13 in there? I've read a few of your posts that have made me think I'd like to climb with you and a few others that have made me want to puke. Just a piece of advice... don't mention the grade you climb unless asked. You'll never look bad if you take that advice and you'll rarely look good if you don't. Most of the time I've come off as an asshole (on this site and it real life) I mentioned the grade that I climb or the grade that someone else didn't climb. When I go back and read those posts or remember those arguments it makes me sick. So take it from me now...for your own sake. Get over the 5.13 thing.
This is actually the second time I've mentioned it, first time it was because my question couldn't really be answered without that info. So really it's been one time that I didn't have to say it, although I didn't really think I was trying to belittle anybody in my post. I mean I figure I've posted enough so far on this site for people to know I'm neither an asshole nor confrontational.
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suprasoup
Jan 28, 2011, 10:54 PM
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theapollo wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: theapollo wrote: I climb with one guy if i climb trad (multipitch routes anyway, single pitch trad you only have to trust the belay of your partner. If i do multipitch I have a hard time trusting placements of people I barely know, so i just don't do it.) He has never placed a link cam before. I do get his advice about lots of climbing aspects though I think the point that amyas was trying to make is that you have been climbing longer and climb much harder than most of the people on this site. So why are you asking this question here? MY POINT would have been more like this: Why does it matter what grade the climb was? How come every time you post up on this site you somehow sneak 5.13 in there? I've read a few of your posts that have made me think I'd like to climb with you and a few others that have made me want to puke. Just a piece of advice... don't mention the grade you climb unless asked. You'll never look bad if you take that advice and you'll rarely look good if you don't. Most of the time I've come off as an asshole (on this site and it real life) I mentioned the grade that I climb or the grade that someone else didn't climb. When I go back and read those posts or remember those arguments it makes me sick. So take it from me now...for your own sake. Get over the 5.13 thing. This is actually the second time I've mentioned it, first time it was because my question couldn't really be answered without that info. So really it's been one time that I didn't have to say it, although I didn't really think I was trying to belittle anybody in my post. I mean I figure I've posted enough so far on this site for people to know I'm neither an asshole nor confrontational.
In reply to: I have onsighted a few 5.13d's and red pointed 5.14a's.
In reply to: my favorite route out of all of them was a .13b/c at the Obed/Clear Creek area called Rasputin D. Scalliwag.
In reply to: Been climbing ten years, only drank for one (ahhh high school.) Never touched alcohol since, climb .14a and V12.
In reply to: Did my first V12 ever today in the Flagstaff Bouldering area, a route called Trice.
In reply to: For instance, this summer I was working on a .13b route
For a guy that's only got 30 odd posts you certainly spray alot.
Supra
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suprasoup
Jan 28, 2011, 11:20 PM
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MS1 wrote: theapollo wrote: Has anyone tried using a full rack of these for short climbs? Like a 6-7 cam rack for 80 ft climbs or below At least one person on this site (suprasoup) seems to rack up that way, but most people avoid it. Such a rack would be heavy, expensive, and occasionally unsafe (depending on the nature of the placements available). Don't get me wrong, I love having a link on my rack as a backup piece, but I wouldn't want to rely on them exclusively.
For the type of climbing that I do, rope solo multi pitch in an alpine setting, they work well. It's a rare day that I'll climb single pitch routes on gear.
To the OP. Every cam has it's particular strengths and weaknesses. It's up to you to decide whether the link cams strengths outweigh their weaknesses for the style of your climbing.
Supra
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theapollo
Jan 31, 2011, 3:33 AM
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suprasoup wrote: theapollo wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: theapollo wrote: I climb with one guy if i climb trad (multipitch routes anyway, single pitch trad you only have to trust the belay of your partner. If i do multipitch I have a hard time trusting placements of people I barely know, so i just don't do it.) He has never placed a link cam before. I do get his advice about lots of climbing aspects though I think the point that amyas was trying to make is that you have been climbing longer and climb much harder than most of the people on this site. So why are you asking this question here? MY POINT would have been more like this: Why does it matter what grade the climb was? How come every time you post up on this site you somehow sneak 5.13 in there? I've read a few of your posts that have made me think I'd like to climb with you and a few others that have made me want to puke. Just a piece of advice... don't mention the grade you climb unless asked. You'll never look bad if you take that advice and you'll rarely look good if you don't. Most of the time I've come off as an asshole (on this site and it real life) I mentioned the grade that I climb or the grade that someone else didn't climb. When I go back and read those posts or remember those arguments it makes me sick. So take it from me now...for your own sake. Get over the 5.13 thing. This is actually the second time I've mentioned it, first time it was because my question couldn't really be answered without that info. So really it's been one time that I didn't have to say it, although I didn't really think I was trying to belittle anybody in my post. I mean I figure I've posted enough so far on this site for people to know I'm neither an asshole nor confrontational. In reply to: I have onsighted a few 5.13d's and red pointed 5.14a's. In reply to: my favorite route out of all of them was a .13b/c at the Obed/Clear Creek area called Rasputin D. Scalliwag. In reply to: Been climbing ten years, only drank for one (ahhh high school.) Never touched alcohol since, climb .14a and V12. In reply to: Did my first V12 ever today in the Flagstaff Bouldering area, a route called Trice. In reply to: For instance, this summer I was working on a .13b route For a guy that's only got 30 odd posts you certainly spray alot. Supra
All but two of those were because someone asked me what i climbed and where. Some of those were taken from the same post in an answer to what someone asked me. That's not spray, unless you're counting answering a question someone asks you spray
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currupt4130
Jan 31, 2011, 3:57 AM
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Posts: 515
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theapollo wrote: suprasoup wrote: theapollo wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: theapollo wrote: I climb with one guy if i climb trad (multipitch routes anyway, single pitch trad you only have to trust the belay of your partner. If i do multipitch I have a hard time trusting placements of people I barely know, so i just don't do it.) He has never placed a link cam before. I do get his advice about lots of climbing aspects though I think the point that amyas was trying to make is that you have been climbing longer and climb much harder than most of the people on this site. So why are you asking this question here? MY POINT would have been more like this: Why does it matter what grade the climb was? How come every time you post up on this site you somehow sneak 5.13 in there? I've read a few of your posts that have made me think I'd like to climb with you and a few others that have made me want to puke. Just a piece of advice... don't mention the grade you climb unless asked. You'll never look bad if you take that advice and you'll rarely look good if you don't. Most of the time I've come off as an asshole (on this site and it real life) I mentioned the grade that I climb or the grade that someone else didn't climb. When I go back and read those posts or remember those arguments it makes me sick. So take it from me now...for your own sake. Get over the 5.13 thing. This is actually the second time I've mentioned it, first time it was because my question couldn't really be answered without that info. So really it's been one time that I didn't have to say it, although I didn't really think I was trying to belittle anybody in my post. I mean I figure I've posted enough so far on this site for people to know I'm neither an asshole nor confrontational. In reply to: I have onsighted a few 5.13d's and red pointed 5.14a's. In reply to: my favorite route out of all of them was a .13b/c at the Obed/Clear Creek area called Rasputin D. Scalliwag. In reply to: Been climbing ten years, only drank for one (ahhh high school.) Never touched alcohol since, climb .14a and V12. In reply to: Did my first V12 ever today in the Flagstaff Bouldering area, a route called Trice. In reply to: For instance, this summer I was working on a .13b route For a guy that's only got 30 odd posts you certainly spray alot. Supra All but two of those were because someone asked me what i climbed and where. Some of those were taken from the same post in an answer to what someone asked me. That's not spray, unless you're counting answering a question someone asks you spray
No offense, but you're not helping your case. 5 of your 33 posts have been about grades. That means over 15% of what you've contributed to this site has been about grades.
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