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beyond_gravity
Dec 28, 2002, 1:45 AM
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So your 3 pitches up, you pull your rope and it gets snagged halfway up...
Like, $#!&, eh?
I know that your suppost to jug up with prussiks and place pro as you go (rhyme!) but what if the rope does come loose? taking a lead fall on prussiks doesn't seems like a good idea...
is there a better way of doing this? like hooking up a Gri-Gri backwards or somthing?
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smallwallmonkey
Dec 28, 2002, 4:27 AM
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Well, options are innumerable here, and since I have poor memory and don't feel like thinking very hard, others may have better advice. A search might yield results as well.
If it is a crack that is easy for you, I might solo it and retrieve the ropes. If the rack is sufficient and the crack right, aiding might be an option. You could maybe, and I'm not sure it's suggestable, protect yourself jugging by anchoring the line, placing pro, and tying it to the rope, keeping yourself tied in short, and using grigri/prussik/ropeman/etc.
Another option, the safe but excruciatingly boring/cold way, is to yell and scream and/or wait for somebody to climb or descend the route. Depends where you are...
The best advice would be to gather your collective experience, and look at the rappeling situation before casting off into the void. Look at the terrain and judge how to handle it. 1 rope is better than two if it looks real hairy. If one rope is skinnier than the other it's less likely to snag in cracks or on friction. You can pass the knot down by just feeding one rope through, but make sure to keep an eye on the ends. Basically, don't get yourself in that situation!
max
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stevematthys
Dec 28, 2002, 4:58 AM
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yep thats happened to me and sparky before, we were rappin off the batman pinnacle at lumpy ridge when our rope got stuck when we pulled it from the second rappel (still one rap off the deck). for a few minutes we just sat there, and said well sh*t what do we do now. after some debate we dicided the best way to retrive the ropes was a free solo back up to them because we were in a steep rain gully and the face climbing to either side of us was around 5.11, we did best out of three for rock, paper, sizzors, and he lost so he free soloed back up to the rope, freed the rope and climbed back down.
[ This Message was edited by: stevematthys on 2002-12-27 20:59 ]
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brutusofwyde
Dec 28, 2002, 5:33 AM
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How much rope do you have/have you pulled down when the remainder jams?
Your scenario isn't too clear.
1.
If you still have both ends, no prob. One trick that can often get a stubborn rope moving is you and your partner (staying clipped to the station) weight both ends of the rope at the same time. Then suddenly release the end that is not the pull strand. Many times the slingshot effect will get the rope moving. You also have the option of reascending both lines on Prussiks in relative safety.
OK. You have pulled, and as that free end left your hand, you made sure that there was no knot in it, and you smoothed out any kinks to erase even the rope's memory of a knot.
2.
Next most likely place for the rope to hang up in a double-rope rappel is when the knot joining the two strands snags over edges or in a crack. EDK helps minimize this, but does not completely eliminate the possibility. Move around at your station, if possible, to try to pull from different angles. Try flipping the rope free. Again staying clipped to the station, both you and your pard attach Prussiks to the rope and bounce it with both your weights.
Still no go? Then one of you must reascend the line, at least partway, to try to free it (assuming you can't get down with what slack you have pulled down.)
But by now you have a few things going in your favor: You've loaded the strand to over twice your body weight, and you have some slack to work with. Reascend the line (or climb up if possible) placing pro and tying in short. Your partner can belay you as you ascend. How often you re-tie into the rope will depend on how much slack you pulled down before the rope jammed.
It is usually possible to free the rope without ascending all the way back up to the upper station. Just be sure that you're clipped into a new and solid anchor before you free it!
Be alert for potential natural intermediate stations as you ascend, but don't be afraid to leave gear if necessary.
Rope still stuck? As you continue to ascend, get control of the free end of the rope as soon as possible. TIE INTO IT AS WELL. Here you have another opportunity to free the rope, by working it from either end, and if that doesn't work, you can at least ascend both strands back up to the higher station, again in relative safety.
Determine what was wrong, correct it, and descend to the mountain room bar.
3.
The last way a rope hangs up, and one of the scariest, is when the free end whips through the upper anchor. Ropes have been pulled with knots still in the end. Ropes have retained a memory of a recently tied knot, and wrap into a figure-eight knot around the rap ring. Ropes have hung up on the tape at the end of the rope when going through tight slings. Rope ends have caught in cracks, wrapped around flakes and chickenheads, and found other incredibly creative ways to get stuck. If you climb long enough, it will likely happen to you, just as it is starting to get dark. In the rain.
Fortunately, unless you are rapping down an absolutely blank wall, you will have protection options. Best of all, you have the other rope, and can re-lead, or at the very least when reascending the stuck line, be fully belayed and placing pro as you go.
Hope some of these suggestions help. They come from hard-won experience.
Brutus
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micronut
Dec 28, 2002, 12:54 PM
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if none of that other stuff works, well, get out the knife and cut as long of piece as you can, then perpeare to epic doing short raps the rest of the way down.
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durus
Dec 28, 2002, 2:17 PM
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This has been talked up in great length on rec.climbing, I did a search on google groups and got about 2,060 hits.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=rope+stuck&meta=group%3Drec.climbing
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rrrADAM
Dec 29, 2002, 3:27 AM
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Quote:
So your 3 pitches up, you pull your rope and it gets snagged halfway up...
Like, $#!&, eh?
I know that your suppost to jug up with prussiks and place pro as you go (rhyme!) but what if the rope does come loose? taking a lead fall on prussiks doesn't seems like a good idea...
is there a better way of doing this? like hooking up a Gri-Gri backwards or somthing?
Sorry Jeremy, but the only thing I agree with here is, "Like, $#!&, eh?".
"I know that your suppost to jug up with prussiks and place pro as you go (rhyme!) but what if the rope does come loose?"
You "know that you are supposed to" ??? You never said tying into the line short, so... Never jug a line that is not PROPERLY fixed. If it comes lose, we will read about you in the Injuries & Accidents Forum.
"taking a lead fall on prussiks doesn't seems like a good idea..."
Prussiks will melt. Yes, not a good idea.
"is there a better way of doing this? like hooking up a Gri-Gri backwards or somthing?"
Hooking up a Gri_gri backwards in NOT a better way, it is NOT ANY way !!!
If you haver both ends... First try to shake, snap, do whatever you can to unsnag. If this doesn't work, one end off, and ascend with the other, either rope solo (if you know how to do it safely) or aid (if you know how to do it safely),
If only one end is left. Relead with another line.
If you don't have another line, and can't get to the anchors some other way, you have lost the ropes.
The idea is to lessen the chances of this happening by practicing good techniques when rappelling. (i.e. Correct Knot, how to pull and snap the rope, last rappeller to position knot over any possible snag, etc...)
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-12-28 19:31 ]
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beyond_gravity
Jan 12, 2003, 7:40 PM
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thanks for the info guys.
What I ment about hooking the gri gri up backwards is hooking it up as if you were lead soloing, then put a prussik on too.
So if you were to fall and the rope didn't come loose, the prussik would catch you, but if you fell and the rope did pull, you would fall down to your last piece of pro and the gri gri would catch you.
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betterthinkfast
Jan 16, 2003, 7:39 AM
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AH.. that makes more sense..
Im totally interested to hear if I get flammed for this (give credit, I think best when climbing, and I'm up really late and wired on caffiene), but what about instead of using the grigri contraption, for each piece of gear, tie an overhand knot into the rope, and clip your pro into the loop created by the overhand.
Not ideal, but at some point, when you find yourself prussiking up a rope that could pull at any moment.... you compromise
[ This Message was edited by: betterthinkfast on 2003-01-15 23:41 ]
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gawd
Jan 19, 2003, 10:28 PM
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freesoloing to retreive a stuck rope is the DUMBEST thing you can do. why put yourself in danger to retrieve safty equipment?
as brutus hasaid too little info in your scenario.
prussking a stuck line is dangerous as well
the least you should do it crazy bob aid back to it. always maintaing two peices of gear between you and death.
only tie an overhand to combine two ropes. never tie knots in the end of your rappel ropes.
think before you pull.
as you rappel read the terrain and evaluate it for possible rope pulling hazards. this includes things you may pull on top of yourself.
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flash
Jan 22, 2003, 12:33 AM
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Answers? Prevention.
As mentioned, check rope for "memory" knots. When rappeling, see if there is any place you think it might snag on.
I have found climbs which offered poor rappel, and when two ropes had to be tied, I TAPED the knot to minimize friction. It may sound stupid, but will work. Hey, it's not like you need to carry 20 pounds of tape...
Hope this helps out.
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blazesod
Jan 22, 2003, 4:42 AM
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I had a similar thing happen to me except I didn't free solo the route to retrieve the rope.
Here is what we did:
Climb up a few feet (like 5) and tie into one of the ropes. Next have your partner stand off to one side and give it a giant whip. When the slack is about to hit the top bounce your weight on the rope.
On a multi-pitch route you could do the same thing safely by anchoring one end, the one you are going to bounce on, and then tying in on a bite.
About safety the question you should ask yourself:
“Is my rope worth risking my life for?”
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epic_ed
Jan 22, 2003, 5:02 AM
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Or, "Is my life at risk if I don't retrieve my rope?"
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