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ascending/descending double ropes?!?
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wonder1978


Mar 1, 2011, 7:59 PM
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ascending/descending double ropes?!?
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Ok, wow, I really have no idea where I should post this for the right kind of people to see this. I'll try to explain what I'm thinking about as clearly as possible.

In short: I am a sport climber (please don't hurt me). I enjoy climbing photography. I'm trying to get better at it. I don't enjoy rigging, and rope management very much, and have limited knowledge of these things (though I am an ex-trad climber, so you won't have to dumb it down THAT much). I am looking for an easy way to move up and down a rope clipped to the chains on a single pitch overhanging route.

I am trying to keep things as simple and quick as possible. I would like to not have to fix the rope at the top of the climb before I can ascend and descend it, but rather have a system that lets me use the two strands of the rope clipped in the chains at the top.

Does it make sense? Maybe just an example to illustrate what I'd want to be able to do: I show up at my local crag, a buddy of mine just warmed up on route A, and is about to start on route B just besides it. The rope is still clipped to the chains of Route A. I set something up, I jug the ropes on route A, stop half way up and snap pictures of my buddy on route B, then I rappel back down, pull the rope, and I'm done.

I don't know, maybe it's all really simple, but I've never jugged a rope before, and though I can sort of conceive of how I would do it on a fixed single rope, I can't quite wrap my head around what I would do in this situation.

If you could explain to me how you would go about doing it, and tell me what equipment I'd need, I'd be really grateful. You can point me to other topics if it's well documented elsewhere, that's fine too (especially if there are illustrationsWink

thanks


charlie.elverson


Mar 1, 2011, 8:18 PM
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Re: [wonder1978] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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If I'm understanding you right, it sounds like you could just tie into one end of the rope and then self-belay on a gri-gri on the other end.

If you can't climb the route where the rope is, you can jug the end of the rope with the gri-gri on it.

If you can climb the route, but not on self-belay, you can have someone else belay you as you climb, then clip yourself to a bolt so they can give you slack while your throw the gri-gri on.

Does that make sense?

edit:
a gri-gri will be really helpful, as would ascenders. If you don't have ascenders, and don't want to buy them, look into how to ascend with prussiks.
I'm sure a google search would return lots of results on how to jug a rope.


(This post was edited by charlie.elverson on Mar 1, 2011, 8:23 PM)


vegastradguy


Mar 1, 2011, 8:28 PM
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Re: [wonder1978] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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fix the line. really. its the easiest way to go about it.

have your buddy trail a line on his send, fix that line for you to the chains, then he can go play on the next route over while you jug and take pics. when you're done, jug to the top, thread the rope and rappel. done and done.

(fwiw, the best shots are from above anyway, so you'll likely be at the anchor regardless)

there are loads of ways to ascend, but the dirtiest, cheapest, easiest way that makes sense in this situation is using a single ascender with a foot stirrup and a grigri. this lets you both ascend and descend short distances easily. (there are more efficient ways to ascend ropes, but for ease of movement and messing around, i suspect that this is the best method- its the method i use for re-bolting and it works great)


moose_droppings


Mar 1, 2011, 8:45 PM
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Re: [wonder1978] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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wonder1978 wrote:
Ok, wow, I really have no idea where I should post this for the right kind of people to see this. I'll try to explain what I'm thinking about as clearly as possible.

In short: I am a sport climber (please don't hurt me). I enjoy climbing photography. I'm trying to get better at it. I don't enjoy rigging, and rope management very much, and have limited knowledge of these things (though I am an ex-trad climber, so you won't have to dumb it down THAT much). I am looking for an easy way to move up and down a rope clipped to the chains on a single pitch overhanging route.

I am trying to keep things as simple and quick as possible. I would like to not have to fix the rope at the top of the climb before I can ascend and descend it, but rather have a system that lets me use the two strands of the rope clipped in the chains at the top.

Does it make sense? Maybe just an example to illustrate what I'd want to be able to do: I show up at my local crag, a buddy of mine just warmed up on route A, and is about to start on route B just besides it. The rope is still clipped to the chains of Route A. I set something up, I jug the ropes on route A, stop half way up and snap pictures of my buddy on route B, then I rappel back down, pull the rope, and I'm done.

I don't know, maybe it's all really simple, but I've never jugged a rope before, and though I can sort of conceive of how I would do it on a fixed single rope, I can't quite wrap my head around what I would do in this situation.

If you could explain to me how you would go about doing it, and tell me what equipment I'd need, I'd be really grateful. You can point me to other topics if it's well documented elsewhere, that's fine too (especially if there are illustrationsWink

thanks

You could tie into one end and set up your ascenders with loops or aiders on to the other line coming down with a grigri between the two ascenders and jug up and rap down at will. You'd be jugging two foot of rope to get one foot up though that way. If there's a good tree or anchor at the bottom you could tie off the one end and jug and rap the other. If there's no anchoring at the bottom you could just use a set of prusiks around both strands at once with loops attached for waist and feet and jug up and down at will.


moose_droppings


Mar 1, 2011, 8:54 PM
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Re: [vegastradguy] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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vegastradguy wrote:
fix the line. really. its the easiest way to go about it.

It really would be best to fix a single line.

Have your friend fix it and rap, then you can jug it in whatever fashion you like. When your done jug to the top and rerig for a lower or rap and pull.


wonder1978


Mar 1, 2011, 9:22 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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Thanks for the quick replies.
Of course, googling "rope jugging" helped a lot, and from waching weird people trying to get up trees, I see why fixing the line makes the most sense. Sly

I found a simple way to jug, as mentionned above, with only one ascender, one aider, a pulley and my gri-gri. Easy to set up, and easy to reverse. Guess I'll go with that. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking a simple way of doing it on double ropes. Turns out the simple way is to pretty much double everything. Simpler to just fix the line.


Partner j_ung


Mar 2, 2011, 4:18 AM
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Re: [wonder1978] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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Fix it at the bottom. Tie one end to the bottom of a stout tree (wrap it to keep it from riding up the tree) and jug the other end as a single line.


aprice00


Mar 2, 2011, 10:11 AM
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Re: [wonder1978] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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wonder1978 wrote:
Thanks for the quick replies.
Of course, googling "rope jugging" helped a lot, and from waching weird people trying to get up trees, I see why fixing the line makes the most sense. Sly

I found a simple way to jug, as mentionned above, with only one ascender, one aider, a pulley and my gri-gri. Easy to set up, and easy to reverse. Guess I'll go with that. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking a simple way of doing it on double ropes. Turns out the simple way is to pretty much double everything. Simpler to just fix the line.

Whats the pulley for? Could someone draw this noob a pic.?

My thought was clipping one end to a bolt (a munter w/ mule on a locker) then jugging the other end with a prussic and cinch or gri gri.

Would this work?


jt512


Mar 2, 2011, 10:41 AM
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Re: [j_ung] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
Fix it at the bottom. Tie one end to the bottom of a stout tree (wrap it to keep it from riding up the tree) and jug the other end as a single line.

You east coasters and your trees.

Treeless/crackless/gearless version: The climber raps off his route, cleaning all the draws except the bottom two, into which he clove hitches one side of the rope, providing you with a two-bolt anchor. You jug the other end. To descend, you single-line rap the free end. Clean the second-to-bottom draw on rappel. Stick-unclip the bottom draw from the ground.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 2, 2011, 10:42 AM)


bigo


Mar 2, 2011, 4:03 PM
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Re: [jt512] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
j_ung wrote:
Fix it at the bottom. Tie one end to the bottom of a stout tree (wrap it to keep it from riding up the tree) and jug the other end as a single line.

You east coasters and your trees.

Treeless/crackless/gearless version: The climber raps off his route, cleaning all the draws except the bottom two, into which he clove hitches one side of the rope, providing you with a two-bolt anchor. You jug the other end. To descend, you single-line rap the free end. Clean the second-to-bottom draw on rappel. Stick-unclip the bottom draw from the ground.

Jay

Jay's is a good system. If you don't have a stick clip or it won't reach the bottom bolt, you can tie yourself into the anchored end of the line at the bottom bolt and lower yourself out. This requires going in direct on the bottom bolt and an anchor that allows lowering. Take care on steep/traversing routes.


Partner j_ung


Mar 4, 2011, 4:32 AM
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Re: [jt512] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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Oh, right. Sorry. That was a bit geocentric on my part.


tweeek


Mar 8, 2011, 2:17 PM
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Re: [wonder1978] ascending/descending double ropes?!? [In reply to]
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wonder1978 wrote:
Ok, wow, I really have no idea where I should post this for the right kind of people to see this. I'll try to explain what I'm thinking about as clearly as possible.

In short: I am a sport climber (please don't hurt me). I enjoy climbing photography. I'm trying to get better at it. I don't enjoy rigging, and rope management very much, and have limited knowledge of these things (though I am an ex-trad climber, so you won't have to dumb it down THAT much). I am looking for an easy way to move up and down a rope clipped to the chains on a single pitch overhanging route.

I am trying to keep things as simple and quick as possible. I would like to not have to fix the rope at the top of the climb before I can ascend and descend it, but rather have a system that lets me use the two strands of the rope clipped in the chains at the top.

Does it make sense? Maybe just an example to illustrate what I'd want to be able to do: I show up at my local crag, a buddy of mine just warmed up on route A, and is about to start on route B just besides it. The rope is still clipped to the chains of Route A. I set something up, I jug the ropes on route A, stop half way up and snap pictures of my buddy on route B, then I rappel back down, pull the rope, and I'm done.

I don't know, maybe it's all really simple, but I've never jugged a rope before, and though I can sort of conceive of how I would do it on a fixed single rope, I can't quite wrap my head around what I would do in this situation.

If you could explain to me how you would go about doing it, and tell me what equipment I'd need, I'd be really grateful. You can point me to other topics if it's well documented elsewhere, that's fine too (especially if there are illustrationsWink

thanks


I have commonly used a pair of shunts, or a shunt and a prussic to accomplish this. Also an ATC in guide mode would work for progress capture as well. The good thing with this system is that it will allow you to ascend as you are wanting, the con to This system is that switching to rappel can be more complicated.


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