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blondgecko
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Mar 8, 2011, 1:43 AM
Post #51 of 52
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Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666
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ceebo wrote: blondgecko wrote: ceebo wrote: blondgecko wrote: jacques wrote: blondgecko wrote: jacques wrote: You are not going to be injure after a training period on the finger board, but when you are going to climb. This makes no sense. The development of the muscles is faster than that of the tendons, so exercise on a finger board, which specifically isolates and trains the muscles driving your fingers, won't cause injury to your tendons? It is not crazy. When you train, you control the environment. You control the weight that you put on one or more finger. when your tendon stress, the pain let you open safely the hands. You stop the exercise. In a cliff, you don't want to fall. So, you are going to grip the hole with all your strenght. You can injure your finger if your muscle are stronger than the resistance of your tendon. As someone who has injured tendons climbing in a gym (where falling is just one of those things that happen), trust me: they don't give you much warning, other than "pop". jac is right though.. in fingerboard training the fingers go through prolonged activity with more weight but it is far more controlled (if you know what your doing). When its time you drop off. Consider a dynamic lunge to a hard contact where gravity drags the body back afterwards. It would not surprise me if the 2 or 3 fingers used in that move momentarily see a higher peak in pressure than in hang boarding (but at the very least the peak even if lower will be reached so much more violently). On top of that the rest of the body is aiding the fingers, in hang boarding as i said you drop off and rest.. but when climbing the legs can keep you on the wall (which normally is good) but in the case a injury ''about to happen'' where your full of adren and cant feel the pain so much.. well. And that to me is the only reason you can get a freak injury without warning. In that case i would assume this is the kind of thing you got your injury from. If not then i don't believe you had no warnings hours,days or weeks before the ''pop''. No offense, but I think you've missed the point. For a beginner who starts without much hand strength, hangboard training will increase the strength of muscles to the point where they're capable of damaging the tendons. Whether the eventual injury happens on the hangboard or the wall is immaterial. Is it really that 1 sided?. Lets be totally honest, most new climbers lack the ability to restrain themselves. They push themselves onto harder and harder routes without learning good lower body initiation or tension. How many times have you seen a new climber slip and drop half a foot only to try desperately to save them self by hanging on for life and limb? (because they are still at that stage of not wanting to fall, be it fear or pride).. that is a serious amount of shock load. Elbows and wrists will feel the same shock regardless of hold size. It is certainly enough to strain the forearm tendons running to the hand. That to me is a far more likely reason behind injury in new climbers. I am not trying to suggest new climbers should choose hang boards over climbing by any means.. it is just simply not the only devil. If a new climber had a good level of restraint and knowledge they would stay on routes under their limit. But then that would also mean they are wise enough to give them self a safe hang board workout where they can build some strength in a controlled manner, ready for when the res of their body and technique has adapted for harder climbs. The only way they could increase strength in climbing to a similar degree is by going very close or over their limit. As i said, if they lack the technical ability it could lead to yet more dangerous outcomes. Their is simply less possibility for error in hang board training. Perhaps we can agree that in the first year/s of climbing, until a climber learns how to respect their body, any form of training comes with a risk. Be it over or bad use of a hang board, or shock load slips and climbing above limit. This makes sense to me - hell, I injured tendons despite never having used a hangboard in my life. The problem's in pushing for too much strength gain, too fast, no matter how you do it.
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jacques
Mar 8, 2011, 5:05 PM
Post #52 of 52
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Registered: May 14, 2008
Posts: 318
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blondgecko wrote: I am not trying to suggest new climbers should choose hang boards over climbing by any means.. it is just simply not the only devil. If a new climber had a good level of restraint and knowledge they would stay on routes under their limit. But then that would also mean they are wise enough to give them self a safe hang board workout where they can build some strength in a controlled manner, ready for when the res of their body and technique has adapted for harder climbs. The only way they could increase strength in climbing to a similar degree is by going very close or over their limit. As i said, if they lack the technical ability it could lead to yet more dangerous outcomes. Their is simply less possibility for error in hang board training. Perhaps we can agree that in the first year/s of climbing, until a climber learns how to respect their body, any form of training comes with a risk. Be it over or bad use of a hang board, or shock load slips and climbing above limit. This makes sense to me - hell, I injured tendons despite never having used a hangboard in my life. The problem's in pushing for too much strength gain, too fast, no matter how you do it. I agree that to increase your strenght, you must stress your muscle and tendon to be stronger. The stress (ex. weight of your body) can be over your limit, but under the pain. Pain is a warning that some thinks are wrong. In training, the structure of the muscle is very important and his envelop: the tendon. Boring, boring, boring. Climber want to climb and perform faster than the capacity of their tendon. In the sticky note, they write that the hangboard is one of these training exercice that most climber use and have accident. So, I agree with the note. One of the mistake is that people think that hight grade egual good climber. As a climber want to climb, maybe is more fun to define a good climber as a climber with out too much injury who can climb all year round is the best climber.
(This post was edited by jacques on Mar 8, 2011, 9:31 PM)
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