Feb 25, 2011, 11:18 AM
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Re: [cracklover] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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cracklover wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
airscape wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Don't know about 5.14 climbers, but I know someone who could redpoint 13b and on-sight 12d and could barely do 2 pull-ups, so your poll is kinda pointless.
This I don't believe for one second.
There is no way someone will climb 5.12 and not be able to at least do 10 pullups.
I on-sight 5.12 low end on a regular basis, I red-point upper 5.12 regularly and I can't do ten pull ups. This season, I managed to rep-pint a 12a crack, but no way did I do ten pull ups.
I don't think the two have much to do with each other.
Airscape, you are simply wrong. There are plenty of girls with great technique and puny little biceps who could prove you wrong.
In fact, I know a woman who is a solid 5.12 sport climber who's never been able to do one single pullup in her life.
GO
SHe just never tried to do one.
I'm sure pull-ups have no relation to climbing ability, but I don't believe for one second that you will not have gained enough strength to atleast do a few from climbing, especially at that level since you would have had to climb quite a bit to reach it.
Feb 25, 2011, 5:05 PM
Post #102 of 151
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Re: [airscape] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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airscape wrote:
cracklover wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
airscape wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Don't know about 5.14 climbers, but I know someone who could redpoint 13b and on-sight 12d and could barely do 2 pull-ups, so your poll is kinda pointless.
This I don't believe for one second.
There is no way someone will climb 5.12 and not be able to at least do 10 pullups.
I on-sight 5.12 low end on a regular basis, I red-point upper 5.12 regularly and I can't do ten pull ups. This season, I managed to rep-pint a 12a crack, but no way did I do ten pull ups.
I don't think the two have much to do with each other.
Airscape, you are simply wrong. There are plenty of girls with great technique and puny little biceps who could prove you wrong.
In fact, I know a woman who is a solid 5.12 sport climber who's never been able to do one single pullup in her life.
GO
SHe just never tried to do one.
I'm sure pull-ups have no relation to climbing ability, but I don't believe for one second that you will not have gained enough strength to atleast do a few from climbing, especially at that level since you would have had to climb quite a bit to reach it.
Nope, I'm afraid you're still wrong. I've seen her try. She can't do one.
Cheers anyway!
Oh, and yes, Lena, she's best at very technical climbs. They don't have to be slabby though. I've seen her onsight a very thin overhanging 12-. Of course if it's a severely overhanging jugfest, she would not be in her element.
Feb 25, 2011, 5:16 PM
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Re: [cracklover] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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airscape wrote:
I'm sure pull-ups have no relation to climbing ability, but I don't believe for one second that you will not have gained enough strength to atleast do a few from climbing, especially at that level since you would have had to climb quite a bit to reach it.
I just had to comment on this impressive piece of cognitive dissonance. Your ability to simultaneously hold the two contradictory beliefs that there is no relation between climbing ability and pullup ability on the one hand; and that if you climb enough you will get much better at doing pullups (and, presumably the corollary that if you do enough pullups you will get much better at climbing) on the other, suggests that maybe you have a calling in politics!
And maybe I have a calling in writing terrible hard-to-read sentences? Oh well.
Feb 25, 2011, 6:09 PM
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Re: [cracklover] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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cracklover wrote:
airscape wrote:
I'm sure pull-ups have no relation to climbing ability, but I don't believe for one second that you will not have gained enough strength to atleast do a few from climbing, especially at that level since you would have had to climb quite a bit to reach it.
I just had to comment on this impressive piece of cognitive dissonance. Your ability to simultaneously hold the two contradictory beliefs that there is no relation between climbing ability and pullup ability on the one hand; and that if you climb enough you will get much better at doing pullups (and, presumably the corollary that if you do enough pullups you will get much better at climbing) on the other, suggests that maybe you have a calling in politics!
And maybe I have a calling in writing terrible hard-to-read sentences? Oh well.
G
If you actually get on a few overhanging jugfests once in a while you will probably gain the ability to do a pullup or two. The type of climbing you are doing is definitely a factor.
Feb 25, 2011, 7:11 PM
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Re: [cracklover] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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cracklover wrote:
airscape wrote:
I'm sure pull-ups have no relation to climbing ability, but I don't believe for one second that you will not have gained enough strength to atleast do a few from climbing, especially at that level since you would have had to climb quite a bit to reach it.
I just had to comment on this impressive piece of cognitive dissonance. Your ability to simultaneously hold the two contradictory beliefs that there is no relation between climbing ability and pullup ability on the one hand; and that if you climb enough you will get much better at doing pullups (and, presumably the corollary that if you do enough pullups you will get much better at climbing) on the other, suggests that maybe you have a calling in politics!
And maybe I have a calling in writing terrible hard-to-read sentences? Oh well.
G
One very strong link will not improve the strength of the chain. A very strong chain will be made up of very strong links. Do you think I have a future in politics?
Mar 14, 2011, 9:25 PM
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Re: [serpico] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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I don't know a large sampling of route climbers.... but if it was for v13 boulders..... I'd say 25 pull ups give or take 5. I know a half dozen at this level.
I think a big consideration is height. Someone who's 5 7 and climbs 5.14 will usually be able to do more pull ups than someone whos 6 ft and climbs 5.14.
Also, I've found the shorter a top boulderer is, the more one arms they can do. Nels Rosaasen, after beating sharma in a bouldering comp years ago, did 7 one arms with each arm, after a comp! He's around 5 9 id say. My friend who has recently done 2 v13, one of them only done by sharma and ty landman, can only do one one arm, hes 6 1
Being shorter, your forced to do more big moves vs someone who's taller. So you build more of the pull muscles throughout the range required for one arms.
Mar 15, 2011, 8:44 PM
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Re: [flesh] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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flesh wrote:
I don't know a large sampling of route climbers.... but if it was for v13 boulders..... I'd say 25 pull ups give or take 5. I know a half dozen at this level.
I think a big consideration is height. Someone who's 5 7 and climbs 5.14 will usually be able to do more pull ups than someone whos 6 ft and climbs 5.14.
Also, I've found the shorter a top boulderer is, the more one arms they can do. Nels Rosaasen, after beating sharma in a bouldering comp years ago, did 7 one arms with each arm, after a comp! He's around 5 9 id say. My friend who has recently done 2 v13, one of them only done by sharma and ty landman, can only do one one arm, hes 6 1
Being shorter, your forced to do more big moves vs someone who's taller. So you build more of the pull muscles throughout the range required for one arms.
I suspect that has more to do with leverage and distance traveled than being forced to do big moves.
Longer arms = longer levers = more force needed to pull body weight up. If you don't believe me, try hanging something weighted half way down your forearm and then curling it. Then try hanging it from your hand and doing a curl. Much more difficult.
Also, a tall person will have to pull his/her weight a farther distance from the bottom of the pull-up to the top of the pull-up due to increased length of his/her arms. This takes more energy, decreasing the amount of possible reps.
And one other thing - taller people generally have a lower strength to weight ratio than shorter people, also making pull-ups more difficult.
(This post was edited by Spaztic on Mar 15, 2011, 8:45 PM)
Mar 15, 2011, 9:59 PM
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Re: [flesh] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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I'm contributing the statement posted by a sponsor (prAna) about (arguably) the best climber in the world, Chris Sharma, and the number of pull ups he can do. Similar to what the OP asked, eh? If you missed it, its on page 2.
Mar 15, 2011, 10:48 PM
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Re: [Jooler] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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Jooler wrote:
I'm contributing the statement posted by a sponsor (prAna) about (arguably) the best climber in the world, Chris Sharma, and the number of pull ups he can do. Similar to what the OP asked, eh? If you missed it, its on page 2.
Mar 15, 2011, 10:54 PM
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Re: [Jooler] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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prAna's first post:
prAna We HAD to have a contest after Chris Sharma's latest email to us. HOW MANY PULL UPS DOES CHRIS SHARMA SAY HE CAN DO? We have a sic prize for the closest answer & autographed posters for 10 others!
prAna's post about the winners:
Jooler wrote:
prAna So before we announce the winners, we have to recognize the honorable mentions in several categories who will also receive autographed posters from Chris;
Insight: Piper-Heather * Humor: Jim * Price Is Right Strategy: Rusty * Most Outrageous: Ewan * Best Link: ClimbAddict <-RC's own!!
So as Piper so succinctly put it, the key to the question was how many did he "SAY" he could do which we are willing to put money on is different than the number he could ACTUALLY do...
The two winners, who correctly guessed 25, will receive their choice of any item from prAna.com, are *names removed*!
The runners up are; *names removed*
IN ORDER TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE YOU MUST SEND A FACEBOOK MESSAGE TO "PRANA LIVING" WITH YOUR FULL NAME & MAILING ADDRESS. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1392623922&sk=wall See More February 16 at 3:31pm · Like Unlike · .
This was copied off of their facebook post. In other words, Sharma recently (February 13, 2011 or something close to that) told prAna that he did his max number of pull ups, which is 25. They had a contest to see who would guess the right number.
(This post was edited by Jooler on Mar 15, 2011, 11:03 PM)
Mar 15, 2011, 11:49 PM
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Re: [Jooler] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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Jooler wrote:
prAna's first post:
prAna We HAD to have a contest after Chris Sharma's latest email to us. HOW MANY PULL UPS DOES CHRIS SHARMA SAY HE CAN DO? We have a sic prize for the closest answer & autographed posters for 10 others!
prAna's post about the winners:
Jooler wrote:
prAna So before we announce the winners, we have to recognize the honorable mentions in several categories who will also receive autographed posters from Chris;
Insight: Piper-Heather * Humor: Jim * Price Is Right Strategy: Rusty * Most Outrageous: Ewan * Best Link: ClimbAddict <-RC's own!!
So as Piper so succinctly put it, the key to the question was how many did he "SAY" he could do which we are willing to put money on is different than the number he could ACTUALLY do...
The two winners, who correctly guessed 25, will receive their choice of any item from prAna.com, are *names removed*!
The runners up are; *names removed*
IN ORDER TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE YOU MUST SEND A FACEBOOK MESSAGE TO "PRANA LIVING" WITH YOUR FULL NAME & MAILING ADDRESS. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1392623922&sk=wall See More February 16 at 3:31pm · Like Unlike · .
This was copied off of their facebook post. In other words, Sharma recently (February 13, 2011 or something close to that) told prAna that he did his max number of pull ups, which is 25. They had a contest to see who would guess the right number.
Totally agree Jooler, this is a contribution, I don't see the difference between using sharma's number of pull ups vs. me using my friend who's a v13 boulderer. Using your "spray" criteria, wouldn't we both be spraying?
But seriously, I really don't care if you believe I'm spraying. It's cool. I'm a sprayer. No biggie.
I think it's difficult to talk to people about the grade you climb or how much money you make for example, without offending some or many people. We all have our own issues.
However, if I sould like I'm spraying here, being a new member, I can assure you that my drive is purely based on excitement from my recent long awaited growth as a climber.
Mar 16, 2011, 12:38 AM
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Re: [flesh] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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I called you a sprayer because you've mentioned V13 in nearly every post you've had here. THAT is the reason. I don't hold it against you, and I think what you've posted is relevant and interesting, I just don't need the 15th reassurance that you're a V13 boulderer
Mar 16, 2011, 5:39 PM
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Re: [Jooler] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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Jooler wrote:
I called you a sprayer because you've mentioned V13 in nearly every post you've had here. THAT is the reason. I don't hold it against you, and I think what you've posted is relevant and interesting, I just don't need the 15th reassurance that you're a V13 boulderer
Cool, I don't boulder that hard though. Never said i did? I do have a few climbing buddies who do. I was using them in my examples. Maybe in a year I can spray that if I'm lucky!
Mar 16, 2011, 11:11 PM
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Re: [cracklover] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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cracklover wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
cracklover wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
airscape wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Don't know about 5.14 climbers, but I know someone who could redpoint 13b and on-sight 12d and could barely do 2 pull-ups, so your poll is kinda pointless.
This I don't believe for one second.
There is no way someone will climb 5.12 and not be able to at least do 10 pullups.
I think that raw pull-up power is actually pretty useful. Being able to do a lot of pull ups doesn't do much, but being able to do one arms can definitely be helpful. For instance, if you take two hypothetical climbers who have identical hand strenght, and identical technique, but only one can do one arms, there will be problems she can do that her friend can't.
I on-sight 5.12 low end on a regular basis, I red-point upper 5.12 regularly and I can't do ten pull ups. This season, I managed to rep-pint a 12a crack, but no way did I do ten pull ups.
I don't think the two have much to do with each other.
Airscape, you are simply wrong. There are plenty of girls with great technique and puny little biceps who could prove you wrong.
In fact, I know a woman who is a solid 5.12 sport climber who's never been able to do one single pullup in her life.
GO
While I don't disbelieve this, I know it is true, I do think that it is more of an exception when a 5.12+ climber of either gender cannot do a single pull-up. And usually would apply in case of someone who mostly climbs vertical faces, slabs and cracks on the vertical/slabby terrain.
For what it is worth, there was a pull-up competition at the end of a bouldering comp I went to a couple of months ago, while everyone was waiting for the score tally. The pull-ups were done on a hangboard, rounded slopper jugs. Not everybody participated, it ended up being mostly the strongest climbers who had a reasonably good idea that they were good at pull-ups, so not representative.
Guys (and these are strong guys who all climb outside on overhanging terrain in 5.12+ range, some of them 5.13 and mybe a couple of 5.14-ers, though I don't know every one of them close enough to tell you what their best redpoint is, I just know them as strong climbers) all did somewhere between 16 and 25 pull-ups. There was no correlation in that group between the strongest climber and the number of pull-ups. I also don't think that the guy who ended up with most pull-ups was the same guy who won the bouldering comp.
Two female pull-up winners who climb low 5.12 tied at 10 and a half. Interestingly, the female who won the bouldering competition, and who has redpointed V8 outside, did not win the pull-up contest, but still put in about 8 of them, I think.
Okay, great, but did you actually read Airscape's position? He claimed that there is no way you could be a 12 climber and unable to do 10 or more pullups. A completely ridiculous position which only seems sensible if start from the assumption that climbing strength and pullup ability is tied. Which it ain't.
I'm not trying to suggest that all girl climbers have wimpy little arms, or that it's common to find a 5.12 climber who can do zero pullups. What I'm saying is that the correlation between how many pullups you can do and how hard you can climb is, if you measure across both genders, only tangentially related.
If you get much better at pullups, I believe you will see very little (if any) gain in your climbing ability. Yes, if you get much stronger as a climber, you may be able to do a little better at pullups. Carts just aren't very good at pulling horses though.
Taking this out of the theoretical... I've been able to do a one-armed pullup once in my life. I was two number grades weaker as a climber at that time than I am now.
Apr 8, 2011, 8:32 PM
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Re: [marc801] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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marc801 wrote:
Don't know about 5.14 climbers, but I know someone who could redpoint 13b and on-sight 12d and could barely do 2 pull-ups, so your poll is kinda pointless.
BS. 13b slab, maybe... If you're climbing 5.13s, you can probably boulder a respectable grade. If you can boulder a respectable grade, you can do a bunch of pullups. Maybe not military pullup contest numbers, but a lot more than "barely do 2 pull-ups".
The silly myth that climbing high numbers doesn't require a high level physical conditioning is getting really old...
(This post was edited by sp00ki on Apr 8, 2011, 8:34 PM)
Apr 8, 2011, 8:55 PM
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Re: [sp00ki] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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sp00ki wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Don't know about 5.14 climbers, but I know someone who could redpoint 13b and on-sight 12d and could barely do 2 pull-ups, so your poll is kinda pointless.
BS. 13b slab, maybe... If you're climbing 5.13s, you can probably boulder a respectable grade. If you can boulder a respectable grade, you can do a bunch of pullups. Maybe not military pullup contest numbers, but a lot more than "barely do 2 pull-ups".
The silly myth that climbing high numbers doesn't require a high level physical conditioning is getting really old...
Troof.
Only person I know who climbs thirteens including men and women, who can't do ten or more pullups is 6 ft 6. He doesn't really have to pull/lockoff, lol.
But I think you can accurately gauge someone's climbing ability by their finger strenth to weight ratio.
I've always thought this was the key. Check this...
Give me an accurate way to determine finger strength and give me the climbers weight, and you'll know whos better. I know alot of people don't like this idea, they want to believe it's all about desire and persistance and technique.
I don't think this is saying it's not about those things. I think having a better finger strength to weight ratio IS the result one's desire, persistance, and technique accumulated over time. If you try harder, you get stronger fingers and lose weight. If you use good technique, you succeed in your climbing objective more often, this success creates confidence which in turn, motivates you to try harder and therefore get stronger, etc. etc.
Apr 9, 2011, 2:23 PM
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Re: [flesh] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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flesh wrote:
sp00ki wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Don't know about 5.14 climbers, but I know someone who could redpoint 13b and on-sight 12d and could barely do 2 pull-ups, so your poll is kinda pointless.
BS. 13b slab, maybe... If you're climbing 5.13s, you can probably boulder a respectable grade. If you can boulder a respectable grade, you can do a bunch of pullups. Maybe not military pullup contest numbers, but a lot more than "barely do 2 pull-ups".
The silly myth that climbing high numbers doesn't require a high level physical conditioning is getting really old...
Troof.
Only person I know who climbs thirteens including men and women, who can't do ten or more pullups is 6 ft 6. He doesn't really have to pull/lockoff, lol.
But I think you can accurately gauge someone's climbing ability by their finger strenth to weight ratio.
I've always thought this was the key. Check this...
Give me an accurate way to determine finger strength and give me the climbers weight, and you'll know whos better. I know alot of people don't like this idea, they want to believe it's all about desire and persistance and technique.
I don't think this is saying it's not about those things. I think having a better finger strength to weight ratio IS the result one's desire, persistance, and technique accumulated over time. If you try harder, you get stronger fingers and lose weight. If you use good technique, you succeed in your climbing objective more often, this success creates confidence which in turn, motivates you to try harder and therefore get stronger, etc. etc.
I now think finger strength alone is nothing.
If i dead hang with both hands on a 2 inch rail, i will last 1 minute for argument sake. If i single arm dead hang and swap between hands i will last 2 minutes, again for argument sake. That does not make sense though right? since my holding hand now has DOUBLE the weight. If 1 hand can hold double the weight for 1 minute total time (1 minute each) yet both hands at the same time only last a minute?.. strength is half as good as we think.
It seems to me that the muscles under isometric just get chocked to failure within a set time (individual to a persons weight and all the rest of it), regardless of over all strength.
By regularly unloading hands you just reverse that chocking effect. And the only part strength comes into it (in actual climbing) is how small those holds are you can unload hands on. The rest comes down to recovery time in endurance, technique to have efficient positions and mental awareness of not overloading both hands for too long.
I just think going off finger strength/ratio alone is no way to determine the grade somebody climbs, their are just too many other factors.
You could say that X amount of finger strength is needed to climb X route, but that does not mean the person has all the other requirements to do that route.. so they are in fact, not climbing the grade their finger strength ''should'' allow.
(This post was edited by ceebo on Apr 9, 2011, 2:26 PM)
Apr 9, 2011, 4:50 PM
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Re: [ceebo] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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Please don't take this the wrong way (aka, "no offense"), but your reading comprehension seems to be a bit off with your last post. Flesh/the Dave McLeod study wasn't claiming that the only thing required to climb high grades is finger strength, but rather that there is a positive correlation between level of finger strength and ones grade ability given a sample of climbers. There's OBVIOUSLY going to be an occasional outlier (for instance, someone who's focused more on developing finger strength with hangboard workouts vs. frequent climbing), but that's going to be a rare exception. In the majority of cases, according to the study, the higher the finger strength to weight ratio, the more likely it is going to be that you climb higher grades (and subsequently have developed all the skills/techniques/whatever that comes with it). This isn't about causation, but rather correlation.
(This post was edited by sp00ki on Apr 9, 2011, 6:11 PM)
Apr 10, 2011, 1:01 AM
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Re: [sp00ki] what is the max # of pull ups a 5.14 climber can do in one go?
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sp00ki wrote:
Please don't take this the wrong way (aka, "no offense"), but your reading comprehension seems to be a bit off with your last post. Flesh/the Dave McLeod study wasn't claiming that the only thing required to climb high grades is finger strength, but rather that there is a positive correlation between level of finger strength and ones grade ability given a sample of climbers. There's OBVIOUSLY going to be an occasional outlier (for instance, someone who's focused more on developing finger strength with hangboard workouts vs. frequent climbing), but that's going to be a rare exception. In the majority of cases, according to the study, the higher the finger strength to weight ratio, the more likely it is going to be that you climb higher grades (and subsequently have developed all the skills/techniques/whatever that comes with it). This isn't about causation, but rather correlation.
Well, i find it unlikely that their is not a large population of climbers who do not have the same raw finger strength to weight as a v13 climber.
Raw finger strength is just not hard to build, takes no thought. It is only by training everything else with dedication and a willingness to learn that those climbers reached such high grades.
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