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cal32


Mar 22, 2011, 11:44 PM
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Giving slack on semi weighted grigri
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Say you're top roping, or leading and are below your clip. You start to get pumped out don't see what to do, and step down a move or two quickly so you can retry with a different sequence. The belayer however doesn't feed slack quick enough so now the gri gri has a bit of weight on it and is partially engaged.

From here if you want the belayer to give you just a bit more slack so you can step down a little more and try again, what is the best way to have them do this? I typically see people put it into lower in these circumstances, which with an experienced belayer I'm fine with. With someone newer, I'm not so confident they get that if I fall as they're doing that they need to let go of the lever(making sure it doesn't get hung up on the rope when they let go).

So if I can I will unweight the rope, or if the roles are reversed I'll ask the climber if they can unweight the rope just a bit then slack can be fed as you would an atc. However sometimes the climber can't unweight the rope enough.

Just curious how others handle this. I don't use the grigri too much, I like the atc, but one of the new gyms I go to requires it.

cheers


jt512


Mar 22, 2011, 11:50 PM
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Re: [cal32] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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cal32 wrote:
Say you're top roping, or leading and are below your clip. You start to get pumped out don't see what to do, and step down a move or two quickly so you can retry with a different sequence. The belayer however doesn't feed slack quick enough so now the gri gri has a bit of weight on it and is partially engaged.

From here if you want the belayer to give you just a bit more slack so you can step down a little more and try again, what is the best way to have them do this?

Yell "slack." If your belayer can't give you slack safely, you've already proved that you're a gumby by allowing an incompetent belayer to belay you. In any event, find a partner who actually knows how to use a grigri.

Edit: the rest of your post shows that you don't know how to use a grigri either. Find someone who actually knows how to use a grigri to help you. Your lack of understanding of this device is too deep to rectify over the Internet.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 25, 2011, 12:17 AM)


airscape


Mar 23, 2011, 12:35 AM
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Re: [cal32] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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cal32 wrote:
Say you're top roping, or leading and are below your clip. You start to get pumped out don't see what to do, and step down a move or two quickly so you can retry with a different sequence. The belayer however doesn't feed slack quick enough so now the gri gri has a bit of weight on it and is partially engaged.

From here if you want the belayer to give you just a bit more slack so you can step down a little more and try again, what is the best way to have them do this? I typically see people put it into lower in these circumstances, which with an experienced belayer I'm fine with. With someone newer, I'm not so confident they get that if I fall as they're doing that they need to let go of the lever(making sure it doesn't get hung up on the rope when they let go).

So if I can I will unweight the rope, or if the roles are reversed I'll ask the climber if they can unweight the rope just a bit then slack can be fed as you would an atc. However sometimes the climber can't unweight the rope enough.

Just curious how others handle this. I don't use the grigri too much, I like the atc, but one of the new gyms I go to requires it.

cheers

This is ridiculous.


socalclimber


Mar 23, 2011, 3:04 AM
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Re: [cal32] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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You should really find someone to teach you how to belay with a grigri, like Jay said, you don't know what you are doing.

I wish the gyms would stop using these things for beginners.


Rudmin


Mar 23, 2011, 5:49 AM
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Re: [cal32] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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If the climber has fallen, their full weight should be on the rope, and they can be lowered as normal. If the climber hasn't fallen, then the belayer should anticipate that the climber is downclimbing and feed rope back through the Gri Gri without touching the lever or capstan. If the cam locks up, they can pull the stretch down from the climber's strand to release the cam. If the cam cannot be released by pulling on the climber's rope, then the climber is hanging a significant portion of their weight and should either climb from where they are or sit back and be lowered.

Opening up the lever for a climber that is downclimbing with some portion of their weight on the rope is a bad idea. The fact that they are half hanging on the rope means they are probably relying on it a bit. The sudden loss of that tension could cause them to fall and put their full weight on the Grigri. If it's a move that they have to back off of to try again, it is probably at the limit of their ability also.


michael1245


Mar 23, 2011, 6:20 AM
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Re: [socalclimber] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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socalclimber wrote:
I wish the gyms would stop using these things for beginners.

The two gyms I climb at in NJ ONLY use ATCs.

I actually used a Grigri for the first time last weekend at The Gunks.


socalclimber


Mar 23, 2011, 6:42 AM
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Re: [michael1245] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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michael1245 wrote:
socalclimber wrote:
I wish the gyms would stop using these things for beginners.

The two gyms I climb at in NJ ONLY use ATCs.

I actually used a Grigri for the first time last weekend at The Gunks.

Interesting, many gyms out here won't use anything but grigri's.


michael1245


Mar 23, 2011, 6:48 AM
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Re: [socalclimber] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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yeah, my friend (here in Jersey) told me the same thing. kind of strange.

ATC is pretty simple. Grigri isn't too complicated, but it definitely requires more instruction, At the end of the day, after using one for the first time, I went ahead and bought one.


socalclimber


Mar 23, 2011, 6:53 AM
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Re: [michael1245] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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The grigri is a great device in proper hands. Like any belay device, it's the responsibility of the belayer to use it properly.


Well the OP needs to get some instruction.


michael1245


Mar 23, 2011, 7:15 AM
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petsfed


Mar 23, 2011, 7:42 AM
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Re: [Rudmin] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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Rudmin wrote:
If the climber has fallen, their full weight should be on the rope, and they can be lowered as normal. If the climber hasn't fallen, then the belayer should anticipate that the climber is downclimbing and feed rope back through the Gri Gri without touching the lever or capstan. If the cam locks up, they can pull the stretch down from the climber's strand to release the cam. If the cam cannot be released by pulling on the climber's rope, then the climber is hanging a significant portion of their weight and should either climb from where they are or sit back and be lowered.

Opening up the lever for a climber that is downclimbing with some portion of their weight on the rope is a bad idea. The fact that they are half hanging on the rope means they are probably relying on it a bit. The sudden loss of that tension could cause them to fall and put their full weight on the Grigri. If it's a move that they have to back off of to try again, it is probably at the limit of their ability also.

If you don't know how to give slack with a gri-gri, maybe you shouldn't give advice on it...

/if you have big meaty paws, you can use the pinky of your brake hand to hold the cam open
//without leaving a solid braking position


spikeddem


Mar 23, 2011, 8:03 AM
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Re: [cal32] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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cal32 wrote:
Say you're top roping, or leading and are below your clip. You start to get pumped out don't see what to do, and step down a move or two quickly so you can retry with a different sequence. The belayer however doesn't feed slack quick enough so now the gri gri has a bit of weight on it and is partially engaged.

From here if you want the belayer to give you just a bit more slack so you can step down a little more and try again, what is the best way to have them do this? I typically see people put it into lower in these circumstances, which with an experienced belayer I'm fine with. With someone newer, I'm not so confident they get that if I fall as they're doing that they need to let go of the lever(making sure it doesn't get hung up on the rope when they let go).

So if I can I will unweight the rope, or if the roles are reversed I'll ask the climber if they can unweight the rope just a bit then slack can be fed as you would an atc. However sometimes the climber can't unweight the rope enough.

Just curious how others handle this. I don't use the grigri too much, I like the atc, but one of the new gyms I go to requires it.

cheers

Like others said, learn how to belay with the grigri.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSVchbjVKLE


Rudmin


Mar 23, 2011, 8:14 AM
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Re: [petsfed] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
Rudmin wrote:
If the climber has fallen, their full weight should be on the rope, and they can be lowered as normal. If the climber hasn't fallen, then the belayer should anticipate that the climber is downclimbing and feed rope back through the Gri Gri without touching the lever or capstan. If the cam locks up, they can pull the stretch down from the climber's strand to release the cam. If the cam cannot be released by pulling on the climber's rope, then the climber is hanging a significant portion of their weight and should either climb from where they are or sit back and be lowered.

Opening up the lever for a climber that is downclimbing with some portion of their weight on the rope is a bad idea. The fact that they are half hanging on the rope means they are probably relying on it a bit. The sudden loss of that tension could cause them to fall and put their full weight on the Grigri. If it's a move that they have to back off of to try again, it is probably at the limit of their ability also.

If you don't know how to give slack with a gri-gri, maybe you shouldn't give advice on it...

/if you have big meaty paws, you can use the pinky of your brake hand to hold the cam open
//without leaving a solid braking position

Paying out slack for a lead clip is different than paying out slack for a top roped climber with half of their weight on the rope. In the later situation, holding the cam open is asking for trouble.


Arrogant_Bastard


Mar 23, 2011, 5:31 PM
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Re: [Rudmin] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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Rudmin wrote:
petsfed wrote:
Rudmin wrote:
If the climber has fallen, their full weight should be on the rope, and they can be lowered as normal. If the climber hasn't fallen, then the belayer should anticipate that the climber is downclimbing and feed rope back through the Gri Gri without touching the lever or capstan. If the cam locks up, they can pull the stretch down from the climber's strand to release the cam. If the cam cannot be released by pulling on the climber's rope, then the climber is hanging a significant portion of their weight and should either climb from where they are or sit back and be lowered.

Opening up the lever for a climber that is downclimbing with some portion of their weight on the rope is a bad idea. The fact that they are half hanging on the rope means they are probably relying on it a bit. The sudden loss of that tension could cause them to fall and put their full weight on the Grigri. If it's a move that they have to back off of to try again, it is probably at the limit of their ability also.

If you don't know how to give slack with a gri-gri, maybe you shouldn't give advice on it...

/if you have big meaty paws, you can use the pinky of your brake hand to hold the cam open
//without leaving a solid braking position

Paying out slack for a lead clip is different than paying out slack for a top roped climber with half of their weight on the rope. In the later situation, holding the cam open is asking for trouble.


If you don't know how to give slack with a gri-gri, maybe you shouldn't give advice on it...


HolySinz


Mar 23, 2011, 7:18 PM
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Re: [cal32] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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As a new climber I have only used a grigri as that's the only device that my local gym uses. I have learned to always keep my hand on the brake line specifically for this reason. Even if I have the lever fully open I can still stop the climber from falling with just my brake hand. My local gym is kinda not very friendly to new climbers. They are not dicks but they don't go around offering tips either.


(This post was edited by HolySinz on Mar 23, 2011, 7:20 PM)


jbro_135


Mar 23, 2011, 7:19 PM
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Re: [HolySinz] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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HolySinz wrote:
As a new climber I have only used a grigri as that's the only device that my local gym uses. I have learned to always keep my hand on the brake line specifically for this reason. Even if I have the lever fully open I can still stop the climber from falling with just my brake hand.


Brilliant. Just brilliant.


HolySinz


Mar 23, 2011, 7:21 PM
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Re: [jbro_135] Giving slack on semi weighted grigri [In reply to]
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I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I don't prentend like I know anything because I don't. I just know what I feel is right.


(This post was edited by HolySinz on Mar 23, 2011, 7:24 PM)


jbro_135


Mar 23, 2011, 7:32 PM
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HolySinz wrote:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I don't prentend like I know anything because I don't. I just know what I feel is right.


You *might* be able to hold a toprope fall in the gym with the cam on a gri gri open. Try it on a 20 foot whipper outdoors and see what's left of your brake hand and your climbing partner.


HolySinz


Mar 23, 2011, 7:40 PM
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This thread is not about whippers it's about providing slack without letting your lead climber fall using a grigri. If my lead climber fell I would simply let go of the oh sh1t handle and jump while pulling in as much slack as I could.


(This post was edited by HolySinz on Mar 23, 2011, 7:42 PM)


jbro_135


Mar 23, 2011, 8:39 PM
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HolySinz wrote:
This thread is not about whippers it's about providing slack without letting your lead climber fall using a grigri. If my lead climber fell I would simply let go of the oh sh1t handle and jump while pulling in as much slack as I could.


That's a good idea. You should also consideringtelling a friend how you feel about your climber falling at that moment, and maybe have a sip of your beer as well. Those are both on my 7-point checklist I consult in the split second between the climber i'm belaying falling and catching them.

Why would you jump if you have to pull in slack to keep them off the ground? Just catch the fall, you're completely overestimating the amount of time you have to react when catching a fall, and overcomplicating the act of belaying.


potreroed


Mar 23, 2011, 8:45 PM
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Back to the original post, the easiest thing for the belayer to do in this situation is to take a step or two forwards which should be enough to "unweight" the gri-gri and put him back in control. If you're on a tiny ledge or a hanging belay you're prolly experienced enough to know how to feed a little slack as your partner downclimbs.

Unlike other posters here I'm a big fan of the gri-gri and have taught many beginners to use it with no problems whatsoever. I consider the gri-gri to be the beginner's device and the tube-type the advanced. Why? You screw up with a properly threaded gri-gri and you still have a chance that it will do it's job. You screw up with an atc and it's all over. This is coming from someone who is alive today because the gri-gri held when my belayer was knocked out cold.


jt512


Mar 23, 2011, 11:37 PM
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potreroed wrote:
I consider the gri-gri to be the beginner's device and the tube-type the advanced. Why? You screw up with a properly threaded gri-gri and you still have a chance that it will do it's job. You screw up with an atc and it's all over. This is coming from someone who is alive today because the gri-gri held when my belayer was knocked out cold.

The error in your logic is that unconsciousness is 100% effective in preventing a belayer from defeating the cam through incompetence. In the majority of grigri accidents reported on the internet unconsciousness would have prevented the accident.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 25, 2011, 12:18 AM)


shockabuku


Mar 24, 2011, 3:23 AM
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In that situation I do the following, using the "new" technique for the grigri as my starting point.

Hit the hinge between the lowering handle and the cam mechanism with the butt (that's right, I wrote butt) of my non-brake hand. Enough to slightly push it down but a fairly short contact so that I don't block the device in the open position. Generally that little shot disengages the cam enough to release slack for the climber to position properly. On occasion I have to hit it twice.


jt512


Mar 24, 2011, 10:29 AM
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shockabuku wrote:
In that situation I do the following, using the "new" technique for the grigri as my starting point.

Hit the hinge between the lowering handle and the cam mechanism with the butt (that's right, I wrote butt) of my non-brake hand. Enough to slightly push it down but a fairly short contact so that I don't block the device in the open position. Generally that little shot disengages the cam enough to release slack for the climber to position properly. On occasion I have to hit it twice.

That's exactly the solution, and very well explained. It immediately releases the tension, and you are never holding the cam open. Of course, you can avoid getting into this situation in the first place 99% of the time by watching your climber and giving him slack in a timely fashion.

Jay


spikeddem


Mar 24, 2011, 11:31 AM
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jt512 wrote:
. . .watching your climber. . .

Ya lost me here.

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