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clee03m
May 2, 2011, 7:10 PM
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I edited again to re-state that I have decided this is a bad idea. Weird how people seem to skip over the post where I said I wouldn't.
I see that some woman flipped upside down while belaying with a pack. But if my husband who weighs almost twice as me belays me with the baby in the pack, would it be safe? We already top tope at the gym with the baby and feel safe about that.
Few concerns:
1. I fall before the first piece or bolt. My husband thinks that even in the worst case senario where he tries to spot me and falls backwards, the backpack has a frame that would protect the baby. I am a wuss and generally do not climb climbs where it is sketchy especially in the beginning.
2. Lead fall: I don't think it would be bad snce I weigh less than my husband.
3. Rescue situation: baby is small enough where if he puts down the pack, he is imobile. He think he would be able to park the baby down in the pack and attend to me.
I am thinking about trying a few hours of sport climbing in a crowded crag where I climb something super duper easy and see how it goes?
I used to think this kind of belaying was irresponsible at best and negligent at worst, so I guess I shouldn't have been so quick to judge...
BTW I mean belaying with baby in the pack. The actual climber (leader or top-roper) would not have the baby pack on.
(This post was edited by clee03m on May 3, 2011, 11:06 PM)
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justanotherclimber
May 2, 2011, 7:22 PM
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not going to have an opinion on this other than to say belaying is a contract between two people that one agrees to keep the other alive. take from that what you will.
at the very least, buy a stick clip so that there is no risk of groundfall below the first bolt.
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jeepnphreak
May 2, 2011, 7:22 PM
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IMHO
With my son how is 1 yr old... I would be comfortable belaying with him is a pack. I feel that myself and my wife's belaying abilities are skilled enough.
As for part two are you talking about also climbing with the baby on your back? If I'm reading that correctly...I would not climb with the kiddo om my or my wife's back.
Reason being that I have had had full of falls in my climbing life that ended up with me upside down or spun and hitting my back on the wall. Either could be detrimental to the kid.
What we have done when my son is with us is go in a odd numbered group, two climb and one watch the kid on the ground and rotate jobs. And just stick to single pitch stuff for that day.
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dynosore
May 2, 2011, 7:28 PM
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Find another couple with kids to climb with, and take turns. I wouldn't want to have to chose between falling back on my son or spotting my wife as she fell towards me.
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Dip
May 2, 2011, 7:30 PM
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I don't think i would do it. My son is 2 now, probably a little too old to be hanging out in a pack, but that sure would freak me out. I mean it's one thing if i take a rock in the noggin, it's another entirely to have my kid down there in potential harm's way. I would never venture to tell anyone else what to do with their kids, but i don't think i'd do it.
Don't think i'd be too into to climbing while my belayer had a baby strapped to their back either. I'd have a hard time getting over the fact that i was not my belayer's primary concern.
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j_ung
May 2, 2011, 7:56 PM
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Why not set the baby pack on the ground while belaying?
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boymeetsrock
May 2, 2011, 8:23 PM
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IMO your original thoughts on this were correct. It would be very irresponsible at the least and negligent in a heartbeat.
1) The aluminum frame on the pack could easily be crushed under even the minimal forces involved in a spotter fall. Even if the frame were intact your child could suffer whiplash or blunt force trauma.
2) Lead fall: as a belayer you may be pulled around quite quickly depending on the fall. Again you can't protect your child on your back in this situation.
3) Rescue situation: do you really need another element to consider in a rescue? Esp your infant child?
4) Falling rocks, gear... You can't protect a child on your back.
Look, TR at the gym is one thing. That is a very controlled environment. Still I wouldn't personally do this.
When you are belaying your responsibility is to your climber alone. I don't see how that can be true when you have your child on your back as well, unless you are willing to forgo responsibilities to your child.
IMO babies should not be in the fall zone. I agree with others above. Why not just put the baby down off to the side. Or better yet climb with others who can do a little babysitting if/ when you and your husband are climbing.
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michael1245
May 2, 2011, 8:26 PM
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boymeetsrock wrote: IMO babies should not be in the fall zone. I agree with others above. Why not just put the baby down off to the side. Or better yet climb with others who can do a little babysitting if/ when you and your husband are climbing.
yes
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BoulderEric
May 2, 2011, 8:45 PM
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Personally, I wouldn't do it. Your husband can put the baby down while he belays you. Also, if it's only "safe" for the baby to be on his back while he belays, that means he doesn't ever get to climb.
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boadman
May 2, 2011, 8:53 PM
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clee03m wrote: I see that some woman flipped upside down while belaying with a pack. But if my husband who weighs almost twice as me belays me with the baby in the pack, would it be safe? We already top tope at the gym with the baby and feel safe about that. Few concerns: 1. I fall before the first piece or bolt. My husband thinks that even in the worst case senario where he tries to spot me and falls backwards, the backpack has a frame that would protect the baby. I am a wuss and generally do not climb climbs where it is sketchy especially in the beginning. 2. Lead fall: I don't think it would be bad snce I weigh less than my husband. 3. Rescue situation: baby is small enough where if he puts down the pack, he is imobile. He think he would be able to park the baby down in the pack and attend to me. I am thinking about trying a few hours of sport climbing in a crowded crag where I climb something super duper easy and see how it goes? I used to think this kind of belaying was irresponsible at best and negligent at worst, so I guess I shouldn't have been so quick to judge... Edited to clarify that I mean belaying with baby in the pack. The actual climber (leader or top-roper) would not have the baby pack on.
I don't think it would actually be that fun. Threesomes with a beginner climbing friend work pretty well too, you and your husband switch off childcare while the third person climbs. My experience is that it's better to just take a half day for yourself and actually go climbing and not have to worry about the baby.
That doesn't even take into account the safety issues. Belaying is actually a relatively complex task that could be made very difficult by a squalling infant. The other people at the crag might not be too psyched if you weren't attending to the screamer.
Once they're older and can play with friends, getting a big group of them together at the crag can be fun.
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olderic
May 2, 2011, 9:02 PM
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Reiterating what has been said already - why does the baby have to be on someone's back? Why can't you setup a playpen or equivalent at a safe distance from where you are climbing and leave the baby there for the < 30 minutes while you are doing a route - not out of site or earshot - just out of rock fall zone. If you are sport climbing you should be able to be back on the deck in < 30 seconds if you need to. If the ground is so uneven or the location is so remote that this is impractical - well then I suggest a different venue. This is SOP in lots of places in the Northeast. Extra credit if you can coordinate with others with similar circumstances. Yes you have to be a bit of a pack horse - but guess what - this is life for awhile. My knees are still shot from 25 years ago traipsing over hill and dale with one kid on the back - another draped on the front, climbing gear dangling haphazardly and mommy holding up the fort lugging assorted paraphernalia including her large format cameras. Now those are the good old days.
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clee03m
May 2, 2011, 9:10 PM
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Ok. I won't do it. I think I knew it was irresponsible but kept thinking how easy it would be. I guess I really need to start building another set of climbing partners who are in line with kind of climbing that is possible with a baby.
Thanks
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marc801
May 2, 2011, 11:13 PM
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clee03m wrote: I see that some woman flipped upside down while belaying with a pack. But if my husband who weighs almost twice as me belays me with the baby in the pack, would it be safe? We already top tope at the gym with the baby and feel safe about that. Few concerns: 1. I fall before the first piece or bolt. My husband thinks that even in the worst case senario where he tries to spot me and falls backwards, the backpack has a frame that would protect the baby. I am a wuss and generally do not climb climbs where it is sketchy especially in the beginning. 2. Lead fall: I don't think it would be bad snce I weigh less than my husband. 3. Rescue situation: baby is small enough where if he puts down the pack, he is imobile. He think he would be able to park the baby down in the pack and attend to me. I am thinking about trying a few hours of sport climbing in a crowded crag where I climb something super duper easy and see how it goes? I used to think this kind of belaying was irresponsible at best and negligent at worst, so I guess I shouldn't have been so quick to judge... Edited to clarify that I mean belaying with baby in the pack. The actual climber (leader or top-roper) would not have the baby pack on.
Please.....
Leave.
The.
Baby.
At.
Home.
If you can't, please consider a different sport until said baby is old enough to somewhat fend for them self and understand basic instructions.
Or hook up with another couple or someone (bring the sitter with you?) to swap out baby watching chores, well away from the base of the cliff and any drop zones.
And please, not at a popular area.
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Diphthong
May 3, 2011, 12:14 AM
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clee03m wrote: I am thinking about trying a few hours of sport climbing in a crowded crag where I climb something super duper easy and see how it goes?
If that baby pees on someones rope you're never going to hear the end of it.
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sidepull
May 3, 2011, 12:22 AM
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I think there's some solid logic here about NOT doing this. It's surprising that the same logic doesn't apply to dogs, sitting in the fall zone, distracting belayers from their "blood oath contract" to protect the climber, possibly getting crushed by gear. So many variables ...
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altelis
May 3, 2011, 1:01 AM
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sidepull wrote: I think there's some solid logic here about NOT doing this. It's surprising that the same logic doesn't apply to dogs, sitting in the fall zone, distracting belayers from their "blood oath contract" to protect the climber, possibly getting crushed by gear. So many variables ...
the consensus seems to be to not belay or climb with the kid physically attached to you. seems about everybody is advocating to bring the baby, though, just with a third member of the group so baby-sitting duty can be a rotational position.
while in the south of france, climbing some of the big limestone caves there, i saw the coolest thing. babies in their little car-carrier type seats, with a sling attached to the handle, clipped into the first bolt. stuff was so overhanging they just swayed in the breeze while daddy belayed mommy on the next route over, usually some ridiculously steep/hard route i could only drool like the little tikes. wasn't just 1 couple either, there were 3-4 like 'em!
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jammer
May 3, 2011, 1:03 AM
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marc801 wrote: Please..... Leave. The. Baby. At. Home.
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cornstateclimber
May 3, 2011, 1:51 AM
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i used to take my son climbing with me, but wen it was just me and my partner, i learned after the 1st time, not to bring him, because it was just too much to deal with. dealing with belaying, and then my son crying or needing me. when it was a group, it was no problem. but i was always concerned with all the other factors, ei: rockfall, other climbers, stoopid people on top of the bluff. trundlers. you name it. you would never forgive yourself if something happened, and the best way to prevent that is just not bringing them.
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chrisJoosse
May 3, 2011, 2:12 AM
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I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I had to belay with a baby on me, even if I weighed twice what my partner weighs. A baby, like a climber, sometimes requires attention- and I know that if I try to do two things at once, I'm not really doing either one of them very well. I find it much easier to bring extra people.
Climbing with kids can be made to work fantastically well, given the right team of adults who are willing to make kid management a high enough priority.
My experience is that if you keep the kids safe and happy, everybody is pretty much guaranteed to have fun, even if they don't (and they probably won't) get as much climbing time as they would if there weren't kids in the picture.
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USnavy
May 3, 2011, 4:36 AM
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clee03m wrote: I used to think this kind of belaying was irresponsible at best and negligent at worst
Where is Majid when you need him? (turns on the Majid bat light)
(This post was edited by USnavy on May 3, 2011, 4:45 AM)
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majid_sabet
May 3, 2011, 5:35 AM
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commando is right
if anything happens to that child, you and your belayer are going to belay each other in a 6'x6' cell
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 3, 2011, 4:39 PM)
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guangzhou
May 3, 2011, 7:38 AM
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altelis wrote: sidepull wrote: I think there's some solid logic here about NOT doing this. It's surprising that the same logic doesn't apply to dogs, sitting in the fall zone, distracting belayers from their "blood oath contract" to protect the climber, possibly getting crushed by gear. So many variables ... the consensus seems to be to not belay or climb with the kid physically attached to you. seems about everybody is advocating to bring the baby, though, just with a third member of the group so baby-sitting duty can be a rotational position. while in the south of france, climbing some of the big limestone caves there, i saw the coolest thing. babies in their little car-carrier type seats, with a sling attached to the handle, clipped into the first bolt. stuff was so overhanging they just swayed in the breeze while daddy belayed mommy on the next route over, usually some ridiculously steep/hard route i could only drool like the little tikes. wasn't just 1 couple either, there were 3-4 like 'em!
Oh my god, the french must think climbing is a recreational activity and not a adventure.
Actually, I've seen couple bring kids, young ones to the crag. In NEw RIver, I remember a couple who brought a cradle with them. They set it up out of the way.
I saw vehicle carries used while climbing at Smith too. In Thailand, Europeans had todles playing in the sand while the parent climbed.
Not sure what I'll do when my wife and I have our in a couple of years. Leaving in Indonesia, chances are we'll have a nanny and we can decide how to handle it at that time.
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bearbreeder
May 3, 2011, 8:32 AM
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baby sitter ...
last thing people want is a baby crying and screaming at the crag ... not to mention that they crags do have things called rocks and gear that fall occasionally ...
sure people bring their dogs to the crag ... the difference is that you can tie them up farther away and leave em ... i still dont think its the best idea though ... of course someone may fall on their dog and kill it like what happened not long ago ... id hate for that to be a baby
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