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rnevius
May 17, 2011, 12:48 PM
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I still think he sounds a bit like a baby pterodactyl throwing a hissy fit when he falls...besides that, very sweet video.
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michael1245
May 17, 2011, 1:53 PM
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good stuff!
it kills me how easy he makes it look. it's hard to accept that it's a 5.15-something, or whatever, by the way he is climbing it.
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dynosore
May 17, 2011, 2:03 PM
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This is in no way targeted at Ondra, he's freakishly strong no doubt and that's a proud send. It's more of a general observation about the apparent need for climbers to claim ever higher grades. This is why I don't buy the whole "two 8b's make a 9b" argument:
In reply to: On the first go of my last day, I made it through the first crux somehow, got to the rest and stayed there for a few minutes. This rest is actually enormously useful for the whole route, without the place to shake out it would be undoubtedly 9b+,
So, even though it sounds like the hardest individual move is no more than 8b+, this route is 9b because of endurance? But make sure you rest up good in the middle.......how long before someone adds a sit start and call it 9c+++?
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redonkulus
May 17, 2011, 2:09 PM
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rnevius wrote: I still think he sounds a bit like a baby pterodactyl throwing a hissy fit when he falls...besides that, very sweet video.
I completely agree. His raging is kind of a deal-breaker for me, otherwise I have no reason to dislike the kid.
On another note, these BD films are always awesome. Just saw one of Kevin Jorgeson the other day, and it was badass too!
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lena_chita
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May 17, 2011, 2:25 PM
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dynosore wrote: This is in no way targeted at Ondra, he's freakishly strong no doubt and that's a proud send. It's more of a general observation about the apparent need for climbers to claim ever higher grades. This is why I don't buy the whole "two 8b's make a 9b" argument: In reply to: On the first go of my last day, I made it through the first crux somehow, got to the rest and stayed there for a few minutes. This rest is actually enormously useful for the whole route, without the place to shake out it would be undoubtedly 9b+, But make sure you rest up good in the middle.......how long before someone adds a sit start and call it 9c+++?
While I cannot claim that I (or anyone) can make a formula that says X many 8b moves, with Y kind of N-type rests in between over Z feet makes up 9+, I have no trouble with the idea itself.
The routes used to be graded primarily based on the hardest move difficulty, and it is still applicable on many routes. But on long overhanging routes, you simply must take endurance into account, because no matter how you slice it, an 8b climber is not going to be able to redpoint that route, even though he might be able to make all moves individually...
Oh, yeah, and the video is pretty neat!
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lena_chita
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May 17, 2011, 2:33 PM
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redonkulus wrote: rnevius wrote: I still think he sounds a bit like a baby pterodactyl throwing a hissy fit when he falls...besides that, very sweet video. I completely agree. His raging is kind of a deal-breaker for me, otherwise I have no reason to dislike the kid.
I don't know that a single scream of frustration when falling really qualifies as 'raging'. Sure, those guys who kick or punch the rock and scream profanities long after the fall are quite ridiculous. But Ondra isn't quite doing that...
Maybe you never scream, maybe you are just cool and collected all the time, regardless of what is happenning-- good for you!
Or maybe it is just that you aren't trying too hard, aren't putting too much of yourself into the try, so the disappointment is not so intense that you feel like screaming... again, good for you, if you can remain so detached, and see that in the big picture your failure to climb a route doesn't mean anything to anyone.
But this kid is putting everything he's got into the climb, pushing the limit of what is humanly possible, and I don't begrudge him the intensity, or the screaming. If I felt close to sending that route, and then fell -- maybe I'd scream, too?
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kaizen
May 17, 2011, 2:34 PM
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dynosore wrote: This is in no way targeted at Ondra, he's freakishly strong no doubt and that's a proud send. It's more of a general observation about the apparent need for climbers to claim ever higher grades. This is why I don't buy the whole "two 8b's make a 9b" argument: In reply to: On the first go of my last day, I made it through the first crux somehow, got to the rest and stayed there for a few minutes. This rest is actually enormously useful for the whole route, without the place to shake out it would be undoubtedly 9b+, So, even though it sounds like the hardest individual move is no more than 8b+, this route is 9b because of endurance? But make sure you rest up good in the middle.......how long before someone adds a sit start and call it 9c+++?
A fair question, but I don't think it's just about throwing out harder grades, at least in this example.
I think the grade translation may have backfired on you. The hardest move at 8b+ is the French bouldering grade, not the french route grade. So the hardest section is V14 down low, not 5.14a.
Since grades are meant to encompass the entire difficulty of sending the line, you'll see 5.12a with one V5 move and lots of 5.9 climbing, and 5.12a with no move harder than V2 but super sustained.
Either way, I suck at grading, so I don't even bother.
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TheRucat
May 17, 2011, 2:36 PM
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lena_chita wrote: dynosore wrote: This is in no way targeted at Ondra, he's freakishly strong no doubt and that's a proud send. It's more of a general observation about the apparent need for climbers to claim ever higher grades. This is why I don't buy the whole "two 8b's make a 9b" argument: In reply to: On the first go of my last day, I made it through the first crux somehow, got to the rest and stayed there for a few minutes. This rest is actually enormously useful for the whole route, without the place to shake out it would be undoubtedly 9b+, But make sure you rest up good in the middle.......how long before someone adds a sit start and call it 9c+++? While I cannot claim that I (or anyone) can make a formula that says X many 8b moves, with Y kind of N-type rests in between over Z feet makes up 9+, I have no trouble with the idea itself. The routes used to be graded primarily based on the hardest move difficulty, and it is still applicable on many routes. But on long overhanging routes, you simply must take endurance into account, because no matter how you slice it, an 8b climber is not going to be able to redpoint that route, even though he might be able to make all moves individually... Oh, yeah, and the video is pretty neat!
I agree. For what it's worth, when he said the hardest move was 8b+, It appears he was referring to font scale.
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michael1245
May 17, 2011, 2:43 PM
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regarding all this grading mumbo-jumbo...I read in Urban Climber Ondra saying (and I'm NOT directly quoting) that one 5.15b route should be a 5.15a and that one 5.15a route was more like a 5.14d...something along that lines. He was actually downgrading a lot of the routes he climbed.
anyway...bottom line, he's climbing hard routes. routes most good, really good, and really awesome climbers probably couldn't complete if they had a month to try.
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LostinMaine
May 18, 2011, 11:03 AM
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If it was so hot there all the time, why is everyone wearing down coats?
Aside from that, it was neat to see Ondra and Sharma going over sequences together. It seems like there is relatively little competition between them and perhaps a bit of torch passing going on...
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devkrev
May 18, 2011, 3:42 PM
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I like that a lot of the new hard sport climbs end at the top of a cliff(sometimes even with a top out), instead of arbitrarily in the middle. Its an interesting return to "the route must get to the top to be a route" ethic that was around before my time at places like the gunks.
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