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cracklover
Jun 3, 2011, 3:53 PM
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So as we were discussing the gap between hardest sport and hardest trad leads we've done, I was thinking - the question is kinda phrased wrong.
See, it's not the "hardest" route that really says much about you as a climber. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, after all. Find a route that caters to your strengths and you can send way harder than your typical grade. For example, for me, it's certain types of cracks. I've onsighted crack climbs at within a couple letter grades of my absolute physical limit because that's just what I'm best at. But there are some types of trad climbs that I'm really kinda shitty at. And somewhere in the middle is the "typical" trad climb.
So if you're looking for a gap, it's the grade of the typical climb that's really where you'll find it.
For example, if I'm getting on a trad route, sight unseen, and all I know is the grade, and that it takes a fairly standard rack, I'll go as high as maybe 10+/11- depending on the area. Beyond that, I'd need to do some research on the route, to see whether I felt competent to be on it or not.
But if I'm getting on a sport route, well whatever. It's sport, right? So I'm game to try pretty much any sport route, sight unseen, up to at least low to mid 12.
That's over a full number grade. Now there's a gap.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Jun 3, 2011, 4:02 PM)
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angry
Jun 3, 2011, 4:56 PM
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It's not exactly fair the way you phrased your question either. If the bolts are within the length of my stick clip, there is literally no grade that I would just stay off. I tend not to get on routes too hard because it's a waste of time, but I have.
For trad, if I feel I can aid down or up the route if I fail, I do the same thing.
Placing gear vs quickdraws is no different in terms of what I'm willing to climb. How about rephrasing the question to something along the lines of "How hard of a route would you try where failure meant leaving gear"
For me, I'll try routes up to about 5.11+ assuming that even if I hang, I'll get to the anchor and leave with as much gear as I started.
I've sent 13a trad and 13c sport after absurd amounts of burns.
That's not a gap, it's a canyon.
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uni_jim
Jun 3, 2011, 5:16 PM
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climb more, calculate less.
there is no typical climb, that's the deal with climbing. Every route is different, requiring a slightly different skill set. It's your job to adapt and grow so that you can show up at the base of a 5.9 slab, vertical crimps, overhanging jugs, finger, hands, fist crack, offwidth, or frozen chimney that is either over bolted or run out on micronuts and knifeblade pitons, and say to yourself "I can get up that."
Eventually, if you climb enough variety, you learn that it's all the same.
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sungam
Jun 3, 2011, 5:25 PM
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Yeah, if the pro/fall is good and the top access is easy, I'll jump on stuff at/above my limit.
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chadnsc
Jun 3, 2011, 5:46 PM
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I'm in a diffrent boat with the whole gap thing. There isn't much sport around where I live and climb so my Trad grad is pretty much the same as my sport grade. Not that I climb very hard; .10s is all I do.
Then again I do most of my sport climbing in the Needels SD.
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cracklover
Jun 3, 2011, 7:10 PM
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angry wrote: How about rephrasing the question to something along the lines of "How hard of a route would you try where failure meant leaving gear"
Yeah, that's a good improvement on my question, and one of the chief differences between trad face climbing and sport face climbing.
In reply to: For me, I'll try routes up to about 5.11+ assuming that even if I hang, I'll get to the anchor and leave with as much gear as I started. I've sent 13a trad and 13c sport after absurd amounts of burns. That's not a gap, it's a canyon.
Yeah, from 11+ to 13 is a canyon, for sure.
For me, it's 10+ for the first, and 12+ for the second.
There is a caveat, though, that I just don't really do a lot of dogging on gear. I fall on gear occasionally, but rarely get on a gear route where I'm likely to fall/take repeatedly. In fact, the last time I did that was when I got on that 11 when I was climbing with you at Turkey Rocks. Not my idea of fun, and not very "sporting", IMO.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Jun 3, 2011, 7:11 PM)
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hafilax
Jun 3, 2011, 9:15 PM
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How about the gap between your onsight free solo and lead?
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jacques
Jun 4, 2011, 3:29 PM
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cracklover wrote: So as we were discussing the gap between hardest sport and hardest trad leads we've done, I was thinking - the question is kinda phrased wrong.
In the 80, a team of researcher (grimper; Patrick Edlinger) make a study to know the physical quality of a climbe (strenght, stamina, streching, etc). They took climber of different level and use multi test to try to know what is the more important muscle in climbing?
To make a gap between sport and trad, I think that we must take pure sport climber who rarely trad and pure trad to make the test and comnpare the result.
"jack of all tread", as I just talk on trad an beginer traid you will not say jacques of all tread, are not the best example of a gap because more often, they want to be the best in both style.
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 17, 2011, 7:50 PM
Post #10 of 13
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cracklover wrote: So as we were discussing the gap between hardest sport and hardest trad leads we've done, I was thinking - the question is kinda phrased wrong. See, it's not the "hardest" route that really says much about you as a climber. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, after all. Find a route that caters to your strengths and you can send way harder than your typical grade. For example, for me, it's certain types of cracks. I've onsighted crack climbs at within a couple letter grades of my absolute physical limit because that's just what I'm best at. But there are some types of trad climbs that I'm really kinda shitty at. And somewhere in the middle is the "typical" trad climb. So if you're looking for a gap, it's the grade of the typical climb that's really where you'll find it. For example, if I'm getting on a trad route, sight unseen, and all I know is the grade, and that it takes a fairly standard rack, I'll go as high as maybe 10+/11- depending on the area. Beyond that, I'd need to do some research on the route, to see whether I felt competent to be on it or not. But if I'm getting on a sport route, well whatever. It's sport, right? So I'm game to try pretty much any sport route, sight unseen, up to at least low to mid 12. That's over a full number grade. Now there's a gap. GO
In general, trad routes up to 11a or b, sport up to 12 c or d. Possibly 13a if I'm feeling really strong.
2 factors that go into that, though, are the commitment and the familiarity of an area. If it's single pitch, I'm much more likely to push it with limited info, but if we're talking multiple pitches then I need to research more. Second, I am much more likely to jump on those grades at the Gunks, North Conway, and Rumney, then if I'm road tripping.
One more factor is who I'm climbing with both in terms of experience and climbing skill.
Josh
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notapplicable
Jun 17, 2011, 10:10 PM
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hafilax wrote: How about the gap between your onsight free solo and lead?
Hardest onsight in the last year...
Solo - .8
Trad - .10b
Sport - .11a
Hardest redpoint in the last year...
Solo - .9 (Previously done roped. Second try solo)
Trad - .10c (Second try)
Sport - .11c (Third try)
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jt512
Jun 18, 2011, 2:42 AM
Post #12 of 13
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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jacques wrote: cracklover wrote: So as we were discussing the gap between hardest sport and hardest trad leads we've done, I was thinking - the question is kinda phrased wrong. In the 80, a team of researcher (grimper; Patrick Edlinger) make a study to know the physical quality of a climbe (strenght, stamina, streching, etc). They took climber of different level and use multi test to try to know what is the more important muscle in climbing? To make a gap between sport and trad, I think that we must take pure sport climber who rarely trad and pure trad to make the test and comnpare the result. "jack of all tread", as I just talk on trad an beginer traid you will not say jacques of all tread, are not the best example of a gap because more often, they want to be the best in both style.
I get that English isn't your first language, but presumably French is. You have plural nouns in French, right? Well, guess what: we have them in English, too.
Nouns that should be pluralized have been bolded. Misspellings and completely indecipherable sentences, which actually outnumber the improper singular nouns, have mercifully been ignored.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jun 18, 2011, 2:51 AM)
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horseshoe
Jun 18, 2011, 1:51 PM
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jt512 wrote: jacques wrote: cracklover wrote: So as we were discussing the gap between hardest sport and hardest trad leads we've done, I was thinking - the question is kinda phrased wrong. In the 80, a team of researcher (grimper; Patrick Edlinger) make a study to know the physical quality of a climbe (strenght, stamina, streching, etc). They took climber of different level and use multi test to try to know what is the more important muscle in climbing? To make a gap between sport and trad, I think that we must take pure sport climber who rarely trad and pure trad to make the test and comnpare the result. "jack of all tread", as I just talk on trad an beginer traid you will not say jacques of all tread, are not the best example of a gap because more often, they want to be the best in both style. I get that English isn't your first language, but presumably French is. You have plural nouns in French, right? Well, guess what: we have them in English, too. Nouns that should be pluralized have been bolded. Misspellings and completely indecipherable sentences, which actually outnumber the improper singular nouns, have mercifully been ignored. Jay
D'accord. J'attend votre message a quelque langue etrangier. Plus important, que penceez vous de l'idee de Jacques? 
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