|
Powers.Goldwire
Jun 18, 2011, 5:58 AM
Post #1 of 31
(9967 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 8, 2011
Posts: 10
|
How do I deside on which stlye of cams I should buy? Should I buy based on reviews or should I buy some of each and try them out? I find it really hard to buy the right cam for my climbing. Any tips?
|
|
|
|
|
porthillsclimber
Jun 18, 2011, 6:39 AM
Post #2 of 31
(9952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 25
|
the standard cam to buy is C4's. you can't really go wrong with these. most people get a set .5 to 4 to start with and then go from there. These are the sizes that you will probably use the most.
tcus are generally for small cracks for smaller. I would go for master cams over tcus for small cracks. the advantages of master cams over tcus is that they are more flexible, have a narrower head and make for more stable placements.
you can't go too far wrong if you buy a major band (BD, Metolius, DMM, Wild country)
|
|
|
|
|
A-Bowl
Jun 18, 2011, 3:39 PM
Post #3 of 31
(9888 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2006
Posts: 76
|
I second that BDs for .4 and up but for smaller cams it depends a bit on the style of climbing you will be doing. What type of rock and where? That would help.
(This post was edited by A-Bowl on Jun 18, 2011, 3:40 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
MS1
Jun 18, 2011, 5:02 PM
Post #4 of 31
(9854 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 24, 2009
Posts: 560
|
Powers.Goldwire wrote: How do I deside on which stlye of cams I should buy? Should I buy based on reviews or should I buy some of each and try them out? I find it really hard to buy the right cam for my climbing. Any tips?
Given that you list your home state as Kentucky, I'm going to assume you are buying this stuff for the red. For a starter rack, I'd get the .5-4 c4s and a set of nuts. Most thin cracks at low grades at the red are featured enough that they protect very well with nuts, and small cams are just not that confidence inspiring in sandstone. Get some mileage, and you will know when you need to spring for smaller gear.
Also, since you are asking this question on a forum, I assume you don't have an experienced mentor who can teach you the finer mechanics of trad leading? If so, getting one is far more important than deciding what gear to buy.
|
|
|
|
|
Powers.Goldwire
Jun 18, 2011, 5:27 PM
Post #5 of 31
(9843 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 8, 2011
Posts: 10
|
I have two climbing buddies and one of them happens to be a little better then me. Yah I dont have a experienced mentor. Its hard to find one especially around kentucky. |
|
|
|
|
MS1
Jun 18, 2011, 5:57 PM
Post #6 of 31
(9831 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 24, 2009
Posts: 560
|
Powers.Goldwire wrote: I have two climbing buddies and one of them happens to be a little better then me. Yah I dont have a experienced mentor. Its hard to find one especially around kentucky.
It's worth looking hard to find someone with experience who can critique your placements. It is, after all, your life on the line.
(This post was edited by MS1 on Jun 19, 2011, 4:08 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
jbro_135
Jun 19, 2011, 10:00 AM
Post #7 of 31
(9755 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 662
|
MS1 wrote: Powers.Goldwire wrote: I have two climbing buddies and one of them happens to be a little better then me. Yah I dont have a experienced mentor. Its hard to find one especially around kentucky. It's worth looking hard to find someone with experience who can critique your placements. It is, after all, your life on the line. I would have probably placed that a little lower, just outside the quote box. Your placement is a little cheesetitty.
|
|
|
|
|
Marc1
Jun 19, 2011, 12:14 PM
Post #8 of 31
(9732 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 94
|
hey man - marc from ireland here - i trad lead granite - i have some wild country friends - metelious master cams and bd - if your getting tcu's get metelious for sure - i have size 4/5/6/ master cams - great beefy grip - wild country are good but something heavy about them compared to bd - i only have a size 2 bd and use it a lot - the guy i climbing with boutgh a whole set and i use them a lot - trying to stop myself buying a set - go with bd for sure as whatever other cams you buy you will alwasy end up getting a set when you have more money so you might as well just get them now - and in the states if you order off the bd website you get an extra 10% off - im sure they guy is waiting for you order - one thing though - might be an idea to get two numbers ones and two numbers twos as you will use these a lot
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Jun 19, 2011, 1:02 PM
Post #9 of 31
(9721 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
4 lobe cams = Black Diamond
3 lobe cams = Metolius
Simple as that.
|
|
|
|
|
bearbreeder
Jun 19, 2011, 3:51 PM
Post #10 of 31
(9690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
|
3 lobes = bd c3s
4 lobes = metollius master or power cams
not so simple 
|
|
|
|
|
CLIMBNBIKER
Jun 19, 2011, 5:19 PM
Post #11 of 31
(9655 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 37
|
Both.
|
|
|
|
|
patto
Jun 19, 2011, 10:59 PM
Post #12 of 31
(9583 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 15, 2005
Posts: 1453
|
DMM Dragons in the larger sizes
Totems in the smaller sizes
WC Zeros in the micro cams sizes
(C4s aren't bad cams but they are a long way from the best out there)
|
|
|
|
|
cellige
Jun 20, 2011, 3:19 PM
Post #13 of 31
(9473 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2010
Posts: 14
|
Remember, cams below .5 inch or so are specialty equipment. And since it is easy to find 4 lobe units at and above that, I would recommend them.
3 lobe units do not hold up well being balanced in simulation due to their design weaknesses.
I recommend the dual axle c4's as well because they are better behaved when walking since their springs always have tension against the axle and NOT the opposite lobe.
Just my recommendation for what its worth, cheers !!
|
|
|
|
|
kachoong
Jun 20, 2011, 3:32 PM
Post #14 of 31
(9462 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: 15304
|
cellige wrote: 3 lobe units do not hold up well being balanced in simulation due to their design weaknesses.
Please explain...
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Jun 20, 2011, 7:08 PM
Post #15 of 31
(9387 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
Your best bet is to get out and get your hands on some other peoples cams and play with them/place them until you find what you like.
If money is no object, then buy a couple from different reputable brands and find what fits your likes and needs in a cam. Honestly, us telling you what you'll like is silly.
|
|
|
|
|
Powers.Goldwire
Jun 20, 2011, 10:13 PM
Post #16 of 31
(9344 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 8, 2011
Posts: 10
|
Actually you guys giving me adice is not silly its actually helpful. Its true that you cant tell me what I will like in types of cams but, you guys do know more about them and can give adive on how I would go upoun selecting them.
|
|
|
|
|
shimanilami
Jun 20, 2011, 11:08 PM
Post #17 of 31
(9331 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043
|
If you've got big hands, then you might find TCU's challenging to place and remove.
Don't get me wrong. TCU's rock. But I wouldn't buy them. My hands are too big.
|
|
|
|
|
cellige
Jun 20, 2011, 11:27 PM
Post #18 of 31
(9317 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2010
Posts: 14
|
kachoong wrote: Please explain...
There are multiple reasons. One for an example can be seen when a 3 lobe cam "walks". It leans as one of the lobes on the two lobed side retracts and one extends. The relationship between perpendicular force (relative to the plane of the lobe) onto the rock surface and the lobe is no longer the desired logarithmic spiral which changes the minimum coefficient of friction needed to maintain equilibrium.
|
|
|
|
|
acorneau
Jun 21, 2011, 2:26 AM
Post #19 of 31
(9278 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
cellige wrote: There are multiple reasons. One for an example can be seen when a 3 lobe cam "walks". It leans as one of the lobes on the two lobed side retracts and one extends. The relationship between perpendicular force (relative to the plane of the lobe) onto the rock surface and the lobe is no longer the desired logarithmic spiral which changes the minimum coefficient of friction needed to maintain equilibrium.
Cam lobes don't change shape, they maintain their logarithmic spiral no mater what the orientation.
Also, a cam pivoting in place isn't "walking". When a cam moves back and forth moving it out of the intended placement then it might be walking, but not just shifting back and forth in place. Three-cam SLCD's are much better at staying put as the center cam will pivot but maintain the placement (usually).
|
|
|
|
|
forkliftdaddy
Jun 21, 2011, 3:36 AM
Post #20 of 31
(9262 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 3, 2003
Posts: 408
|
I think the best bet is to borrow some. Use a friend's rack and see what you think.
I don't care for the Master Cams or the small C4s. I rarely carry any Camalots smaller than the 0.75 because I like other cams better. That said, I do own the 0 and 00 Master Cams because I think that if a cam fits (better), use it, especially if that cam is teeny-tiny.
Borrow some cams and stuff them in cracks.
|
|
|
|
|
cellige
Jun 21, 2011, 12:09 PM
Post #21 of 31
(9174 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2010
Posts: 14
|
acorneau wrote: Cam lobes don't change shape, they maintain their logarithmic spiral no mater what the orientation. Also, a cam pivoting in place isn't "walking". When a cam moves back and forth moving it out of the intended placement then it might be walking, but not just shifting back and forth in place. Three-cam SLCD's are much better at staying put as the center cam will pivot but maintain the placement (usually).
Your right, the cam lobes do not change shape. You bolded my text out of context. Please re read what I wrote.
Cam lobes maintain their logarithmic contact angle, but that doesn't mean the force is being applied in that direction (unless your using a four cam unit).
Your right once again ! that the three cam units will maintain position better. However, the forces change undesirably, whereas they do not for a four cam unit. This would difficult to observe without the right test setup or a simulation.
Also observe my use of quotes for "walking" as that should be evident I did not mean its literal meaning, thus the quotation marks.
Edit: politeness
(This post was edited by cellige on Jun 21, 2011, 2:24 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
patto
Jun 21, 2011, 1:33 PM
Post #22 of 31
(9161 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 15, 2005
Posts: 1453
|
cellige wrote: acorneau wrote: Cam lobes don't change shape, they maintain their logarithmic spiral no mater what the orientation. Also, a cam pivoting in place isn't "walking". When a cam moves back and forth moving it out of the intended placement then it might be walking, but not just shifting back and forth in place. Three-cam SLCD's are much better at staying put as the center cam will pivot but maintain the placement (usually). Your right, the cam lobes do not change shape. You bolded my text out of context. Please re read what I wrote. Cam lobes maintain their logarithmic contact angle, but that doesn't mean the force is being applied in that direction (unless your using a four cam unit). Your right once again ! that the three cam units will maintain position better. However, the forces change undesirably, whereas they do not for a four cam unit. This would difficult to observe without the right test setup or a simulation. Also observe my use of quotes for "walking" as that should be evident I did not mean its literal meaning, thus the quotation marks. In fact did you actually read my post?
You are going to have to explain yourself more thoroughly. I'm not sure anybody understands what you are writing.
A single axle cam in a parallel crack will always make the SAME angle to the axle.
|
|
|
|
|
cellige
Jun 21, 2011, 2:13 PM
Post #23 of 31
(9145 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2010
Posts: 14
|
Thats ok, if anyone is seriously interested where writing it out nicely is worth the time just shoot me a PM. But for the OP's purposes just know that 4 lobe units are the preferred choice when the space exist to use them. tschau tschau!
|
|
|
|
|
csproul
Jun 21, 2011, 2:15 PM
Post #24 of 31
(9143 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1769
|
cellige wrote: incoherent rambling... In fact did you actually read my post?
(This post was edited by csproul on Jun 21, 2011, 2:16 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
kennoyce
Jun 21, 2011, 2:34 PM
Post #25 of 31
(9124 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1338
|
cellige wrote: acorneau wrote: Cam lobes don't change shape, they maintain their logarithmic spiral no mater what the orientation. Also, a cam pivoting in place isn't "walking". When a cam moves back and forth moving it out of the intended placement then it might be walking, but not just shifting back and forth in place. Three-cam SLCD's are much better at staying put as the center cam will pivot but maintain the placement (usually). Your right, the cam lobes do not change shape. You bolded my text out of context. Please re read what I wrote. Cam lobes maintain their logarithmic contact angle, but that doesn't mean the force is being applied in that direction (unless your using a four cam unit). Your right once again ! that the three cam units will maintain position better. However, the forces change undesirably, whereas they do not for a four cam unit. This would difficult to observe without the right test setup or a simulation. Also observe my use of quotes for "walking" as that should be evident I did not mean its literal meaning, thus the quotation marks. Edit: politeness
As has been said, your posts (yes plural) make no sense. What I think you are trying to say is that as the cam pivots around the center lobe, for some reason the axel will shift to where it is no longer parallel to the wall of the crack which contacts the two lobed side of the cam.
If this is the case, I have never seen any evidence supporting your claim, and even if this did happen, it would not affect the camming angle or the forces on the lobes of the cam. It may cause more damage to the lobes of the cam in a fall due to the decreased surface area of the lobes on the rock, but the forces would remain the same (that is the great thing about a logarithmic spiral).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
