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Daisey Chain
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ACLSRN


Jul 6, 2011, 9:06 AM
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Daisey Chain
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Can someone explain to me why a Daisey Chain is used for Big Wall Climbing, etc? I always thought that the climber/belayer anchors themselves directly via the rope itself to the wall, etc.

???


Partner j_ung


Jul 6, 2011, 9:45 AM
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Re: [ACLSRN] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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Correct use of a daisy chain has nothing to do with big wall climbing, and everything to do with aid climbing. You're correct that when anchoring, you shouldn't use daisies... or at least not only daisies.


ACLSRN


Jul 6, 2011, 10:06 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
Correct use of a daisy chain has nothing to do with big wall climbing, and everything to do with aid climbing. You're correct that when anchoring, you shouldn't use daisies... or at least not only daisies.

Well , whats what I thought until I recently saw a pic posted of a climber sitting on a ledge using one to anchor himself to his belay anchor along with the rope.

I used to use one many years ago when caving for ascending fixed static rope after descending into a cave system to connect myself and my Clog ascenders to the rope, etc - but didn't think anyone used one other than in aid climbing, etc.


Partner cracklover


Jul 6, 2011, 10:10 AM
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Re: [ACLSRN] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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ACLSRN wrote:
Can someone explain to me why a Daisey Chain is used for Big Wall Climbing, etc? I always thought that the climber/belayer anchors themselves directly via the rope itself to the wall, etc.

???

To attach yourself to the piece.

That was easy, eh?

GO


Partner cracklover


Jul 6, 2011, 10:13 AM
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Re: [ACLSRN] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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ACLSRN wrote:
j_ung wrote:
Correct use of a daisy chain has nothing to do with big wall climbing, and everything to do with aid climbing. You're correct that when anchoring, you shouldn't use daisies... or at least not only daisies.

Well , whats what I thought until I recently saw a pic posted of a climber sitting on a ledge using one to anchor himself to his belay anchor along with the rope.

I used to use one many years ago when caving for ascending fixed static rope after descending into a cave system to connect myself and my Clog ascenders to the rope, etc - but didn't think anyone used one other than in aid climbing, etc.

In that situation, the climber uses it to attach to the anchor. Usually in conjunction with the rope. In that situation it has nothing to do with big wall or aid.

Also straightforward, no?

What exactly are you trying to understand?

GO


ACLSRN


Jul 6, 2011, 10:27 AM
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Re: [cracklover] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
ACLSRN wrote:
j_ung wrote:
Correct use of a daisy chain has nothing to do with big wall climbing, and everything to do with aid climbing. You're correct that when anchoring, you shouldn't use daisies... or at least not only daisies.

Well , whats what I thought until I recently saw a pic posted of a climber sitting on a ledge using one to anchor himself to his belay anchor along with the rope.

I used to use one many years ago when caving for ascending fixed static rope after descending into a cave system to connect myself and my Clog ascenders to the rope, etc - but didn't think anyone used one other than in aid climbing, etc.

In that situation, the climber uses it to attach to the anchor. Usually in conjunction with the rope. In that situation it has nothing to do with big wall or aid.

Also straightforward, no?

What exactly are you trying to understand?

GO

WHY the need for it instead of just anchoring via the rope itself? Doesn't adding a Daisy chain just add another pc of unnecessary gear when you already have a rope to anchor in with? Why add a separate pc of gear and another 'potential' point of failure, etc?


csproul


Jul 6, 2011, 10:36 AM
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Re: [ACLSRN] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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Outside of aid climbing, there is no need for a daisy chain. But that doesn't stop people from using them anyway. Some people like the (perceived) convenience of clipping in with them. This is usually done while cleaning anchors, at rap anchors, or used to clip in before tying off with the rope at belays.


ACLSRN


Jul 6, 2011, 10:46 AM
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Re: [csproul] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
Outside of aid climbing, there is no need for a daisy chain. But that doesn't stop people from using them anyway. Some people like the (perceived) convenience of clipping in with them. This is usually done while cleaning anchors, at rap anchors, or used to clip in before tying off with the rope at belays.

OK - that makes sense to me....thanks for the answer!

Mucho Gracias


potreroed


Aug 15, 2011, 8:53 PM
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Re: [ACLSRN] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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In aid climbing the daisies are also clipped to your aiders to prevent accidentally dropping them.


donwanadi


Jan 13, 2012, 7:32 AM
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Re: [ACLSRN] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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What does it help you do when you are actually climbing up the aiders? It seems like it's just introducing something static to fall on and hurt yourself.


csproul


Jan 13, 2012, 7:54 AM
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Re: [donwanadi] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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donwanadi wrote:
What does it help you do when you are actually climbing up the aiders? It seems like it's just introducing something static to fall on and hurt yourself.
Like was said, you can attach your aiders to your daisies, and that prevents dropping of your aiders. You can also fifi or clip your waist into the daisy to keep you in closer to the piece you are hanging off of. This can also make top stepping easier. There are definitely people who aid climb without daisies, especially on easier aid. They will argue that it is faster and makes you keep your weight on your feet/aiders better because it keeps you from hanging on your (non-existent) daisies.


donwanadi


Jan 13, 2012, 8:17 AM
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Re: [csproul] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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Perhaps a better question then would be, 'How do you avoid a dangerous static fall onto a daisy'? I would think a 3-4' fall onto a daisy would do some serious internal damage, no?


(This post was edited by donwanadi on Jan 13, 2012, 8:19 AM)


csproul


Jan 13, 2012, 8:28 AM
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Re: [donwanadi] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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donwanadi wrote:
Perhaps a better question then would be, 'How do you avoid a dangerous static fall onto a daisy'? I would think a 3-4' fall onto a daisy would do some serious internal damage, no?
Discalimer; I have minimal aid experience, but from what I have done, this is my take on it:

Using kind of the "standard aiding" method, it is always a possibility. When testing the next piece, you are generally still daisied into the current piece, so if the piece you're testing blows you will fall onto the daisy. I like the leg bounce test for this reason, I get to keep one foot on the good piece that I am standing on, so if the test pulls the piece, I can still catch myself standing on the good piece. As soon as you commit to the high piece, you want to unclip your daisy from the last piece and clip the rope into it. This will help minimize the possibility of a daisy fall. I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad.


Partner cracklover


Jan 13, 2012, 8:57 AM
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Re: [donwanadi] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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donwanadi wrote:
What does it help you do when you are actually climbing up the aiders? It seems like it's just introducing something static to fall on and hurt yourself.

Already answered:

cracklover wrote:
ACLSRN wrote:
Can someone explain to me why a Daisey Chain is used for Big Wall Climbing, etc? I always thought that the climber/belayer anchors themselves directly via the rope itself to the wall, etc.

???

To attach yourself to the piece.

That was easy, eh?

GO

Now I have a question for you:

Why dig up an old thread to ask a question already answered in the thread itself?

Edited to add - I see, because you really wanted to ask a different question:
In reply to:
Perhaps a better question then would be, 'How do you avoid a dangerous static fall onto a daisy'? I would think a 3-4' fall onto a daisy would do some serious internal damage, no?
You posted this while I was responding, so I didn't see it until now.

Fair enough. Hope my answer helped.

GO


(This post was edited by cracklover on Jan 13, 2012, 9:24 AM)


Partner cracklover


Jan 13, 2012, 9:07 AM
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Re: [donwanadi] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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donwanadi wrote:
Perhaps a better question then would be, 'How do you avoid a dangerous static fall onto a daisy'? I would think a 3-4' fall onto a daisy would do some serious internal damage, no?

This should never happen if your method is sound. When testing a piece, you should either have your rope through the previous piece, and your daisy unclipped from it, or if you still have your daisy clipped to it, you should have a hand and foot in that aider ready to catch yourself if your current piece blows (you can do this by bouncing low on your upper daisy).

GO


Partner cracklover


Jan 13, 2012, 9:20 AM
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Re: [csproul] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad.

Don't count on your next short daisy fall being "not that bad". I was belaying a girl who slipped out of her aiders and took around a 1 foot fall onto her daisies. Blew two pockets on the daisy and effed up her back pretty good.

GO


csproul


Jan 13, 2012, 9:33 AM
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Re: [cracklover] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
csproul wrote:
I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad.

Don't count on your next short daisy fall being "not that bad". I was belaying a girl who slipped out of her aiders and took around a 1 foot fall onto her daisies. Blew two pockets on the daisy and effed up her back pretty good.

GO
I agree, and I try to do everything I can to avoid it . I just have not worked out a method for aiding that completely eliminates the possibility. But it is not necessarily the death sentence that everyone makes them out to be. I've got pretty limited aid experience, so if you know of a method to completely avoid them, I'd love to hear it.

Just saw you post above...and that is pretty much what I do. Either 1) get onto the high piece and unclip the daisy (and clip in the rope) from the last one, or 2) keep a hand/foot on the low piece while bounce testing the higher piece. On easy aid, however, I rarely find real vigorous bounce testing all that necessary.


(This post was edited by csproul on Jan 13, 2012, 9:41 AM)


Partner cracklover


Jan 13, 2012, 10:12 AM
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Re: [csproul] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
cracklover wrote:
csproul wrote:
I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad.

Don't count on your next short daisy fall being "not that bad". I was belaying a girl who slipped out of her aiders and took around a 1 foot fall onto her daisies. Blew two pockets on the daisy and effed up her back pretty good.

GO
I agree, and I try to do everything I can to avoid it . I just have not worked out a method for aiding that completely eliminates the possibility. But it is not necessarily the death sentence that everyone makes them out to be. I've got pretty limited aid experience, so if you know of a method to completely avoid them, I'd love to hear it.

Nah, there's always a chance. But with a good method I think you have to screw up or be really unlucky for it to happen.

GO


USnavy


Jan 15, 2012, 1:31 AM
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Re: [cracklover] Daisey Chain [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
csproul wrote:
I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad.

Don't count on your next short daisy fall being "not that bad". I was belaying a girl who slipped out of her aiders and took around a 1 foot fall onto her daisies. Blew two pockets on the daisy and effed up her back pretty good.

GO
Agreed. My partner took a factor one daisy fall on a bolt this season. It was very rough, he had to sit and chill a bit before continuing. Thats the thing I like about the Yates adjustables. Because they are adjustable you dont need a fifi and you pretty much eliminate all risk of a daisy fall.


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