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ChalkIsCheap


Jul 27, 2011, 9:31 AM
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Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead
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What would everyone say is the right thing to do when you go to the crag and want to jump on some specific lead climbs and there are top ropes set up on all the climbs but nobody around who they belong to. Do you:

- Pull the rope and throw it back up when you are done climbing.

- Climb with the TR attached. It's not going to get in the way anyway.

- Search the crag for some other climb that is appealing and hope they have finished when you return.

Why do people hang top ropes everywhere and then go out to lunch?


wonderwoman


Jul 27, 2011, 9:57 AM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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Option one or two. If they're not currently on it and you leave their anchor alone, I doubt anyone would care or notice.


JoeHamilton


Jul 27, 2011, 10:00 AM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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Not sure, my own ethics would tell me if I am leaving the area to take my gear until I return so not to interior someone else. This should be an interesting topic.


Kartessa


Jul 27, 2011, 10:28 AM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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You know my opinion on this one Kev, but here goes:

You pull the rope down, coil it nicely and attach a note saying "Next time I see this laying around, I'll cut it"


Kartessa


Jul 27, 2011, 10:29 AM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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Where was this anyway?


jeepnphreak


Jul 27, 2011, 10:33 AM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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So noone else here was thinking "Sweet! climb a route and get a free rope day"


Kartessa


Jul 27, 2011, 10:35 AM
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Re: [jeepnphreak] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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jeepnphreak wrote:
So noone else here was thinking "Sweet! climb a route and get a free rope day"

Would you trust a rope that belonged to someone who left it laying around like that?


onrockandice


Jul 27, 2011, 10:39 AM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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Pull the rope and any gear. Stack it nicely somewhere and do your thing. If they come back while you are on it then play it out as you see fit. If you finish, leave and don't worry about putting stuff back how it was. I've heard of leaving draws but not a top-rope setup ... that's just ... asking to have your stuff taken I guess.


6pacfershur


Jul 27, 2011, 1:30 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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kartessa, you seem to have a hostile streak....how is cutting someone's rope going to resolve the issue? might i again suggestion positive communication skills
Kartessa wrote:
You know my opinion on this one Kev, but here goes:

You pull the rope down, coil it nicely and attach a note saying "Next time I see this laying around, I'll cut it"
In reply to:


markc


Jul 27, 2011, 1:50 PM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
Option one or two. If they're not currently on it and you leave their anchor alone, I doubt anyone would care or notice.

This. I'd personally go for #2 so long as it's really not in the way. Less work for me overall.

Especially since no one is there, I don't see the point in wandering off and looking for something else to climb. Who knows how long they'll be gone, and how long they'll tie up the routes when they get back?


bearbreeder


Jul 27, 2011, 1:55 PM
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climb through or pull the rope ...

i wouldnt put it back up ... you dont really want to set up an anchor for someone or change it without them knowing about it

just leave it coiled at the base with the gear ..


marc801


Jul 27, 2011, 1:56 PM
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Re: [JoeHamilton] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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JoeHamilton wrote:
Not sure, my own ethics would tell me if I am leaving the area to take my gear until I return so not to interior someone else. This should be an interesting topic.
Is English a second language for you?


JoeHamilton


Jul 27, 2011, 2:09 PM
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My fault ,typo.it is supposed to be interfere . That one I'm blaming on the I pad .


Gmburns2000


Jul 27, 2011, 2:16 PM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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ChalkIsCheap wrote:
What would everyone say is the right thing to do when you go to the crag and want to jump on some specific lead climbs and there are top ropes set up on all the climbs but nobody around who they belong to. Do you:

- Pull the rope and throw it back up when you are done climbing.

- Climb with the TR attached. It's not going to get in the way anyway.

- Search the crag for some other climb that is appealing and hope they have finished when you return.

Why do people hang top ropes everywhere and then go out to lunch?

One or two. I'll almost always put a rope back up if I take it down.


ckirkwood9


Jul 27, 2011, 2:20 PM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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If there's no one around, climb through. If they're not there, by the time they come back you may be done.

If someone's at the base about to get on the route, even if they've been there for a while, first come first served is my motto regardless of climbing style (trad/tr/bouldering) as nobody reigns supreme regardless of level of experienced. Ask them if they mind if you hop on the route. If they say 'go ahead' cool, if they say "we're on it”, then find another route.

A little courtesy goes a long way in all directions.

That also means that if one is on a route all day long, they should be willing to allow others to hop on for a ride or climb through as long as a discussion has taken place before hand.

Again, a little courtesy in all directions...


carabiner96


Jul 27, 2011, 2:49 PM
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Re: [6pacfershur] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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6pacfershur wrote:
kartessa, you seem to have a hostile streak....how is cutting someone's rope going to resolve the issue? might i again suggestion positive communication skills
Kartessa wrote:
You know my opinion on this one Kev, but here goes:

You pull the rope down, coil it nicely and attach a note saying "Next time I see this laying around, I'll cut it"
In reply to:
You don't know the half of it.


ChalkIsCheap


Jul 27, 2011, 2:51 PM
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Re: [6pacfershur] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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6pacfershur wrote:
kartessa, you seem to have a hostile streak....how is cutting someone's rope going to resolve the issue? might i again suggestion positive communication skills
Kartessa wrote:
You know my opinion on this one Kev, but here goes:

You pull the rope down, coil it nicely and attach a note saying "Next time I see this laying around, I'll cut it"
In reply to:

She's on day 5 of no cigarettes or bacon, let her cut a rope or two.


MarcelS


Jul 27, 2011, 2:51 PM
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Choice 4: pull out the rope, coil it for them (without the note *grin*), and start climbing. No need to put it back up, that is up to them. If you are really service minded, you could also retrieve their TR anchor and put it with the rope.

When I arrived at a specific sector at a crag, 3 topropes were hung out, of which 2 were in use. I got immediately the question if I wanted to climb the free route and they removed the toprope. That is how it is supposed to happen, there is no need to occupy routes you are not climbing, at least not when anyone else wants to climb them.


ChalkIsCheap


Jul 27, 2011, 2:57 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
Where was this anyway?
It was at Metcalfe, I was trying to find some easy routes for Tanya to lead but they all had top ropes so we ended up doing Slabbus instead. Later on that day we saw a group of four people, two were running up climbs and setting up topropes for the other two to climb. I wanted tanya to get some easy leading rather then just top rope all the climbs.


Kartessa


Jul 27, 2011, 3:30 PM
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Re: [ChalkIsCheap] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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ChalkIsCheap wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
Where was this anyway?
It was at Metcalfe, I was trying to find some easy routes for Tanya to lead but they all had top ropes so we ended up doing Slabbus instead. Later on that day we saw a group of four people, two were running up climbs and setting up topropes for the other two to climb. I wanted tanya to get some easy leading rather then just top rope all the climbs.

Metcalfe... the source of all my rope-cutting ragez!


granite_grrl


Jul 27, 2011, 4:03 PM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
Option one or two. If they're not currently on it and you leave their anchor alone, I doubt anyone would care or notice.
Agreed, bonus especially if they offer to get out of your way so you can lead through, I make sure their TR setup is left alone (or rope replaced).

I have had fantasies of pulling top ropes down that were in my way of climbs, but have never done it. Seems like a good way to cause a ruckus at the crag, and I'm never in a good mood after a ruckus.


jbro_135


Jul 28, 2011, 9:20 AM
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Pull the rope, offer to replace it if they're around. If they have a TR left up on a popular climb and are nowhere to be found then fuck 'em.

My worst experience with this was a group of half a dozen climbers or so with top-ropes on about 5 different routes at left flank in the red.


chadnsc


Jul 28, 2011, 10:02 AM
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Option one or two.


markc


Jul 28, 2011, 11:13 AM
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jbro_135 wrote:
My worst experience with this was a group of half a dozen climbers or so with top-ropes on about 5 different routes at left flank in the red.

That sucks. Unless they're doing TR self-belay (which you know they aren't), there's no way to physically occupy all of those ropes at once. If they're not freely offering their ropes to everyone who comes by, they're jerks.

If you're with a group, you should never hang more than 1 rope for every two people, always rounding down. You should break down any TR that people in your party aren't waiting to climb, and let folks climb on or pull your rope if you're not actively using it. Where did common sense and courtesy go?


sungam


Jul 28, 2011, 11:31 AM
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Re: [granite_grrl] Crag ethics Top Rope vs Lead [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
Option one or two. If they're not currently on it and you leave their anchor alone, I doubt anyone would care or notice.
Agreed, bonus especially if they offer to get out of your way so you can lead through, I make sure their TR setup is left alone (or rope replaced).

I have had fantasies of pulling top ropes down that were in my way of climbs, but have never done it. Seems like a good way to cause a ruckus at the crag, and I'm never in a good mood after a ruckus.
If you took a video, I would send you some chocolates and a 20 to cheer you back up, because that would be hilarious/rad/deserving.

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