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TheNags


Jul 27, 2011, 3:18 PM
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Hi everyone, I have only been climbing about two and a half months now, and I noticed that outdoors I can lead a 5.10a/b and some of my gym routes that are rated 5.10a make me feel pumped out on TR. I am wondering if its just me doing something weird with my technique or if the rating might be off. I climb at boulderdash, and they don't even rate their bouldering. its listed as easy, med, and hard. thanks for the input!


Toast_in_the_Machine


Jul 27, 2011, 3:23 PM
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TheNags wrote:
Hi everyone, I have only been climbing about two and a half months now, and I noticed that outdoors I can lead a 5.10a/b and some of my gym routes that are rated 5.10a make me feel pumped out on TR. I am wondering if its just me doing something weird with my technique or if the rating might be off. I climb at boulderdash, and they don't even rate their bouldering. its listed as easy, med, and hard. thanks for the input!

Blame the local routesetters. It works every time.


spikeddem


Jul 27, 2011, 3:50 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
TheNags wrote:
Hi everyone, I have only been climbing about two and a half months now, and I noticed that outdoors I can lead a 5.10a/b and some of my gym routes that are rated 5.10a make me feel pumped out on TR. I am wondering if its just me doing something weird with my technique or if the rating might be off. I climb at boulderdash, and they don't even rate their bouldering. its listed as easy, med, and hard. thanks for the input!

Blame the local routesetters. It works every time.

I blame the local first ascentionists as a back-up plan.


granite_grrl


Jul 27, 2011, 4:11 PM
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Are you comparing two routes of similar styles? An overhang will typically feel a lot pumpier than a less than vertical climb, even if they are of the same grade.

In my experience there aren't that many 10-s outside that are overly steep, inside most of the walls are true vertical to overhung. Could this be your problem.

And even so, maybe the gym is sandbagged, but in the end does it really matter?


TheNags


Jul 27, 2011, 4:35 PM
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I guess it doesn't matter, just curious more than anything. the guys i usually climb with have a lot of experience on me (im a newbie). so they are always helping me push myself. It just seemed weird to me after climbing outside that i couldn't do the same inside... Thanks for the input guys, hopefully one day I can help new guys like you help me :D


clc


Jul 27, 2011, 9:41 PM
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Nags,
I bet the outdoor and indoor routes were very different. The indoor wall was most likely past vertical and the outdoor was less than vertical. So you get more pumped on steep routes, thats normal


Kartessa


Jul 28, 2011, 3:46 AM
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Ratings can vary from gym to gym, just like they do from crag to crag and style to style.

Keep at it, you'll get the hang of it.


ckirkwood9


Jul 28, 2011, 6:52 AM
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TheNags wrote:
Hi everyone, I have only been climbing about two and a half months now, ... I can lead a 5.10a/b

less than 3 months and you're leading... AND leading 10's no less??!?!?

wow... good for you!

It took my friends and me a heck of a lot longer than that to start climbing 10s.

Of course gym ratings (as well as crag ratings) vary wildly - what one gym nearby (Earth Treks in Maryland) calls a 5.10 is more like a 5.8 in the another gym (Go Vertical Philadelphia).

Having said that... took me a while to climb 5.8s at Go Vertical too... certainly more than 3 months.

You must be climbing consistently well - good job! :)


brijoel


Jul 28, 2011, 8:48 AM
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It's a bit off-putting to call them "bad" ratings. They're actually consistent throughout the gym. I went to Boulderdash for 2+ years. I know for a fact that a lot of the bouldering is sandbagged in most folks' opinions. I also know for a fact that a lot of the people who set there are quite strong, and there's a pretty vocalized focus on combining technique and just really burly movement. I also know that if you went bouldering at Stoney Point and attempted the same grades, you'd get shut down just as hard for the exact same reasons. The absence of grades is done to stop bickering over very subjective differences between two grades.

As far as the sport climbing there, I don't know where you went outdoors, but Malibu Creek (overhanging, pocketed/juggy, and pumpy) is a lot of what is modeled by some setters at Boulderdash, mostly because it's just down the street.


TheNags


Jul 28, 2011, 9:22 AM
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Thanks again to everyone for the info. I am curious what you mean by sandbagged though. also I climb at least 3 days a week, and go outdoors pretty much every weekend. I feel like the moves at the gym are more awkward than the ones I am having to do outdoors. (I was able to do a clean lead on Gorgeous at mcsp, and I still feel pumped out doing some of the 10a's on their tall wall). I know I have a long way to go as far as technique and power are concerned, maybe that is my main issue? that and a lack of experience I guess.


brijoel


Jul 28, 2011, 9:35 AM
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Sandbagged means the first ascensionist/setter graded the climb easier than most would perceive it to be, or it actually is.

Personally, I'd say spend a little longer climbing before getting too fussy over what you think the grade should be. It may have absolutely nothing to do with power as well. It could just be you haven't worked out the correct movement/technique to bring the climbs down to the grades.

For instance, campusing through a V2 makes it harder than V2 because you're just powering through instead of using technique.


JoeHamilton


Jul 28, 2011, 9:39 AM
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Sandbagged the route is rated harder then it should be , v3 is actually a v1. Or claiming to climb a 5.12 ,when your climbing 5.11 b. Hope those explamples are close enough to correct and help .if I'm wrong someone will correct me reall soon.


dynosore


Jul 28, 2011, 9:55 AM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
Sandbagged the route is rated harder then it should be , v3 is actually a v1. Or claiming to climb a 5.12 ,when your climbing 5.11 b. Hope those explamples are close enough to correct and help .if I'm wrong someone will correct me reall soon.

Alrighty then.......


sungam


Jul 28, 2011, 10:35 AM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
Sandbagged the route is rated harder then it should be , v3 is actually a v1. Or claiming to climb a 5.12 ,when your climbing 5.11 b. Hope those explamples are close enough to correct and help .if I'm wrong someone will correct me reall soon.
Here is your correction. Sandbagging is in the other direction. It probobly comes from something along the lines of people slipping sand bags into each other's packs pre-route. "Damn, that route felt hard for 5.6!" "dudebro... I sandbagged you!" "Motherfucker!".


Edit to add: You can also sandbag someone by lying to them. "Hey dude, how hard does the guidebook say this one is?" "Uh... 5.10c[teeheehee]. God for it dude!" ...... "Wha.... Watch me here! WATCH ME!!".


There was a thread a little while ago, called something like "My first .12" and it was a dude's story about his buddy-slash-mentor who sandbagged him on every route, so he thought he was a .10 climber. Then, one day, he topped out a .10c or something and lowered off. Everyone congradulated him on his first 5.12. I reall it being pretty well written, I'll try to find it.


(This post was edited by sungam on Jul 28, 2011, 10:42 AM)


sungam


Jul 28, 2011, 10:50 AM
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Okay, I remembered wrong. The story is hideously written and in one giant paragraph. Strange how it stuck in my head so clearly six years later...
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...rum.cgi?post=1218626


redonkulus


Jul 28, 2011, 12:21 PM
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I've climbed 15-ish 12a-b's outside in different parts of the world, yet the hardest I've ever climbed in my local gym was a .10d. Obviously that gym says routes are a lot easier than they actually are. Perhaps your gym is the same. In the end though, it'll only help you. You will think you're weaksauce, go outside, sail up hard routes, and feel great about yourself. Its all good.


JoeHamilton


Jul 28, 2011, 12:30 PM
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I assumed I was wrong on that one .what do you call it when they do my version. Lol sorry it's been awhile.


sungam


Jul 28, 2011, 12:40 PM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
I assumed I was wrong on that one .what do you call it when they do my version. Lol sorry it's been awhile.
Soft grading or grade fluffing. There are quite a few terms for it.


Redonkulous... So you've been to Kalymnos? (this is a joke, I haven't even been there).


Partner j_ung


Jul 28, 2011, 1:13 PM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
I assumed I was wrong on that one .what do you call it when they do my version. Lol sorry it's been awhile.

Featherbagging.


rangerrob


Jul 28, 2011, 6:45 PM
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People need to start accepting that climbing indoors and climbing on real rock is two totally different things. You can't use a rock climbing rating system to describe indoor climbing. It just doesn't correlate. There should be a gym climb rating system that is not based on the Yosemite decimal system.


JoeHamilton


Jul 28, 2011, 8:01 PM
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rangerrob wrote:
People need to start accepting that climbing indoors and climbing on real rock is two totally different things. You can't use a rock climbing rating system to describe indoor climbing. It just doesn't correlate. There should be a gym climb rating system that is not based on the Yosemite decimal system.
gc.10 , and a gc.10 should be set to be as hard if not harder then a 5.11 outside. That is a great idea rangerrob, I don't get that part . The gym is for strength and endurance training so shouldn't indoor be harder then outdoor ? Aside from on sighting and some other variables that come into play. They are different no matter what.


redonkulus


Jul 28, 2011, 8:05 PM
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No Kalymnos. Thailand, Italy, and around the States though. I'd love to go though.


blueeyedclimber


Jul 29, 2011, 5:25 AM
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j_ung wrote:
JoeHamilton wrote:
I assumed I was wrong on that one .what do you call it when they do my version. Lol sorry it's been awhile.

Featherbagging.


You sure that's not teabagging?


jacques


Jul 29, 2011, 7:31 AM
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TheNags wrote:
Hi everyone, I have only been climbing about two and a half months now, and I noticed that outdoors I can lead a 5.10a/b and some of my gym routes that are rated 5.10a make me feel pumped out on TR. I am wondering if its just me doing something weird with my technique or if the rating might be off.

sorry to be late to answer. Yes there is something about technique in my opinion.

Actually, there is a tendance to say that trad is dangerous and good bolt route are safe. when they teach you in a gym, they gave you the impression that you are good. When you go outside, and bail in a scary 5.6, you will blame the rating of the climber who did the first ascent...not you: you are soooo good, you climb 5.10. I am not 'laughing at you, I just want you to understand that if you climb 5.10 in two month....it will be possible to a strong man in the sixty to climb 5.10 as well. It is not the case and there is a reason.

There is more than two important think in climbing: you can power up a route or you can climb a route technically. Most climber who begin with a martial art formation can power up a route. They have strong finger because of the way you hold your partner in martial art and you need to do ten pull up to climb 5.10. Technically is when you climb and can not do it. You fall and rest on the rope. At that place, you try different position to the one that can be done. You are working in a repetition move like in martial art....your level of anticipation (looking at your position in the space from above and which muscle are use to do the move) is close to near zero.

so, in a trad pitch, when you have technical and power up move, the climber of the fifty seventy play the game of anticipation...which is fun and not so scary when someone gave you a good technique in protecting a pitch. Today, as they want to protect there child as in a children garden, you play the game of art martial: you repeat a move from above or to a close bolt, as many time as finally you made a mistake and finf the good sequence.

Sorry to be irronical. I am probably as bad as those who don't teach you how to well protect a route and bring you on some think dangerous to discourage you. Trad climbing is dangferous. To climb well, you have to train anticipation and you most train every body position in a gym, but test your ability outside. If you can not make it after one or two try: aid it and come back to the gym to practice.


Kartessa


Jul 29, 2011, 8:31 AM
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jacques wrote:
TheNags wrote:
Hi everyone, I have only been climbing about two and a half months now, and I noticed that outdoors I can lead a 5.10a/b and some of my gym routes that are rated 5.10a make me feel pumped out on TR. I am wondering if its just me doing something weird with my technique or if the rating might be off.

sorry to be late to answer. Yes there is something about technique in my opinion.

Actually, there is a tendance to say that trad is dangerous and good bolt route are safe. when they teach you in a gym, they gave you the impression that you are good. When you go outside, and bail in a scary 5.6, you will blame the rating of the climber who did the first ascent...not you: you are soooo good, you climb 5.10. I am not 'laughing at you, I just want you to understand that if you climb 5.10 in two month....it will be possible to a strong man in the sixty to climb 5.10 as well. It is not the case and there is a reason.

There is more than two important think in climbing: you can power up a route or you can climb a route technically. Most climber who begin with a martial art formation can power up a route. They have strong finger because of the way you hold your partner in martial art and you need to do ten pull up to climb 5.10. Technically is when you climb and can not do it. You fall and rest on the rope. At that place, you try different position to the one that can be done. You are working in a repetition move like in martial art....your level of anticipation (looking at your position in the space from above and which muscle are use to do the move) is close to near zero.

so, in a trad pitch, when you have technical and power up move, the climber of the fifty seventy play the game of anticipation...which is fun and not so scary when someone gave you a good technique in protecting a pitch. Today, as they want to protect there child as in a children garden, you play the game of art martial: you repeat a move from above or to a close bolt, as many time as finally you made a mistake and finf the good sequence.

Sorry to be irronical. I am probably as bad as those who don't teach you how to well protect a route and bring you on some think dangerous to discourage you. Trad climbing is dangferous. To climb well, you have to train anticipation and you most train every body position in a gym, but test your ability outside. If you can not make it after one or two try: aid it and come back to the gym to practice.

INRT

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