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j41182
Jul 29, 2011, 2:24 PM
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Alright guys, here's what happened:
I was at a popular crag with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. We just finished a 2 pitch climb. The second pitch was a sustained 5.10+. As I was rappeling down the second pitch (and I arrive at the first anchor) I see that 2 others climbers (local climbers [I'm not local], they're about 50 years old, and I'm 20) just got to the same anchor (they just finished leading the easy 5.8+ first pitch). First reaction: Damn, overcrowed belay stations sucks. Anyways, we're rappeling down, and we'll soon be over with this.
As my girlfriend starts rappeling down the second pitch, one of the other guy at the belay station starts leading this same pitch. I said: Dude ... would you mind waiting for my GF to finish rappeling down this pitch .. ?! Because if you fall while climbing, you might fall straight on my girl friend, and it doesn't sound good to me, at all.
the climber replied (obviously pissed off): I won't fall.
I reply: I don't care if you THINK you won't wall. I don't know you as a climber. You might be a really good climber, but sure as hell this ain't some 5.2, and, even if you're a "good" climber, you COULD fall, and you COULD fall on my girlfriend. Would you really mind waiting for like 2 minutes for her to come down ?
And we continued arguing for like 2 minutes, before he finally agreed to anchor onto the first bolt, waiting for my girlfriend to come down.
Bottom line:::: Am I paranoying about security ??? Or is it only this guy being a total douche on this one ?
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kennoyce
Jul 29, 2011, 2:28 PM
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You're being totally paranoid. The chances of the dude falling just right to hit your GF are pretty slim in my opinion, and I would think that she could probably rap a little bit off to the side or something.
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olderic
Jul 29, 2011, 2:43 PM
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Don't know where you were so this might not apply it all. But lots of times there are perfectly good walk offs and people still insist on rapping straight down popular routes causing the inevitable clusters. Also the person on the sharp end traditionally has priority over a rapper. Finally you claim it would be "2 minutes" but if her progress was at a snails pace and the setup included knots in the rope ends, autoblock back ups etc. then I can see why there might be some impatience. Maybe none of this applies - just speculating.
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JoeHamilton
Jul 29, 2011, 2:44 PM
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You are 20, they are about 50. DUDE over EXCUSE ME ,would put an older person off right out the gate.
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j41182
Jul 29, 2011, 2:45 PM
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The anchor (on the top of the 2nd pitch) we're right above the anchor on the top of the first pitch. The second pitch was in (almost) straight line up to the second anchor. The second pitch was slightly overhanging.
I know the chances of the dude falling on my GF are pretty slim, but, IMO, it still represents a danger for her.
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j41182
Jul 29, 2011, 2:48 PM
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JoeHamilton wrote: You are 20, they are about 50. DUDE over EXCUSE ME ,would put an older person off right out the gate.
totally agree, and I didn't put it in these words at the moment. Can't remember exactly how I said it, but I stayed polite for the whole time.
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michael1245
Jul 29, 2011, 2:51 PM
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I think you did the right thing.
What did it take...a whole 5 minutes for her to rap down?
Maybe they should have hollered up to you guys, communicate what they were doing/what you were doing, before coming up on the same route. especially with leads, raps, and 2 pitches of climbing.
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JoeHamilton
Jul 29, 2011, 3:03 PM
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Agreed, picturing myself arriving at top of first pitch and finding people there, I think I would look at the surroundings say HI, and maybe even rest a moment.
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kennoyce
Jul 29, 2011, 3:11 PM
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j41182 wrote: The anchor (on the top of the 2nd pitch) we're right above the anchor on the top of the first pitch. The second pitch was in (almost) straight line up to the second anchor. The second pitch was slightly overhanging. I know the chances of the dude falling on my GF are pretty slim, but, IMO, it still represents a danger for her.
If I was the climber I would have waited for her to get down, not for safety reasons, but because I wouldn't want someone rapping down on me. If I was the person rapping, and the climber insisted on climbing, I would do my best to stay out of their way (out of courtesy, not safety) and really wouldn't worry about them falling on me. I mean seriously, you could just wait a few feet above them until they are on good enough holds for you not to worry about them falling, then it would take all of three seconds (if you're going super slow) to rap past the area where they could possibly hit you in a fall.
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TarHeelEMT
Jul 29, 2011, 4:01 PM
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Was there a walk off?
Did she back up her rappel?
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tH1e-swiN1e
Jul 29, 2011, 4:44 PM
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You're being paranoid, she could easily get herself into a position out of the way for him to pass her. Also, climbers going up always have the right of way. Local or not thats climbing etiquette worldwide.
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killingmorethancancer
Jul 29, 2011, 4:49 PM
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I totally agree with you buddy, I would have been pissed about it too. Hold on 2 freakin seconds and then lead. The smart ass comment about I will not fall seems a little smuggish no matter what grade you are climbing.
Im with you all the way on this one.
If it was falling on me I would not have cared so much but to act like that about your GF yea thats pretty lame. I would been pretty pissed. Maybe even unclipped him and gave him a little push =]
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michael1245
Jul 29, 2011, 5:21 PM
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tH1e-swiN1e wrote: Also, climbers going up always have the right of way. Local or not thats climbing etiquette worldwide.
I'm a bit lost on this one here.
For one, they were already on the route and now they're trying to come off of it. Don't you think it's better to let someone complete their climb/descent before you come on up and get in their way?
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cracklover
Jul 29, 2011, 6:02 PM
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j41182 wrote: Alright guys, here's what happened: I was at a popular crag with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. We just finished a 2 pitch climb. The second pitch was a sustained 5.10+. As I was rappeling down the second pitch (and I arrive at the first anchor) I see that 2 others climbers (local climbers [I'm not local], they're about 50 years old, and I'm 20) just got to the same anchor (they just finished leading the easy 5.8+ first pitch). First reaction: Damn, overcrowed belay stations sucks. Anyways, we're rappeling down, and we'll soon be over with this. As my girlfriend starts rappeling down the second pitch, one of the other guy at the belay station starts leading this same pitch. I said: Dude ... would you mind waiting for my GF to finish rappeling down this pitch .. ?! Because if you fall while climbing, you might fall straight on my girl friend, and it doesn't sound good to me, at all. the climber replied (obviously pissed off): I won't fall. I reply: I don't care if you THINK you won't wall. I don't know you as a climber. You might be a really good climber, but sure as hell this ain't some 5.2, and, even if you're a "good" climber, you COULD fall, and you COULD fall on my girlfriend. Would you really mind waiting for like 2 minutes for her to come down ? And we continued arguing for like 2 minutes, before he finally agreed to anchor onto the first bolt, waiting for my girlfriend to come down. Bottom line:::: Am I paranoying about security ??? Or is it only this guy being a total douche on this one ?
Climbers get priority over rappers. Period.
You want to rap down onto a leader's head, and it's *his* fault? LAME!
GO
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csproul
Jul 29, 2011, 6:15 PM
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cracklover wrote: j41182 wrote: Alright guys, here's what happened: I was at a popular crag with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. We just finished a 2 pitch climb. The second pitch was a sustained 5.10+. As I was rappeling down the second pitch (and I arrive at the first anchor) I see that 2 others climbers (local climbers [I'm not local], they're about 50 years old, and I'm 20) just got to the same anchor (they just finished leading the easy 5.8+ first pitch). First reaction: Damn, overcrowed belay stations sucks. Anyways, we're rappeling down, and we'll soon be over with this. As my girlfriend starts rappeling down the second pitch, one of the other guy at the belay station starts leading this same pitch. I said: Dude ... would you mind waiting for my GF to finish rappeling down this pitch .. ?! Because if you fall while climbing, you might fall straight on my girl friend, and it doesn't sound good to me, at all. the climber replied (obviously pissed off): I won't fall. I reply: I don't care if you THINK you won't wall. I don't know you as a climber. You might be a really good climber, but sure as hell this ain't some 5.2, and, even if you're a "good" climber, you COULD fall, and you COULD fall on my girlfriend. Would you really mind waiting for like 2 minutes for her to come down ? And we continued arguing for like 2 minutes, before he finally agreed to anchor onto the first bolt, waiting for my girlfriend to come down. Bottom line:::: Am I paranoying about security ??? Or is it only this guy being a total douche on this one ? Climbers get priority over rappers. Period. You want to rap down onto a leader's head, and it's *his* fault? LAME! GO
Can you imagine a day on Crimson Chrysalis where everyone going down waited for the climbers below to finish the pitch?! There would still be climbers up there from last year.
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qwert
Jul 29, 2011, 6:17 PM
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j41182 wrote: Bottom line:::: Am I paranoying about security ??? Or is it only this guy being a total douche on this one ?
You are paranoid, but he could have just been so nice and say "well, ok, if it makes you feel better, no problem", especially since this is just a two pitch climb, and not some big alpine stuff, where every wasted minute could get you into trouble at the end of the day.
But still: One party at the same climb you are rapelling from, and you call that crowded?
Go to some of the more famous rocks of the dolomites, and hang on a belay with 4 other parties, while 3 parties are rapping down the climb, and then come back and talk about crowded.
qwert
(This post was edited by qwert on Jul 29, 2011, 6:22 PM)
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bearbreeder
Jul 29, 2011, 6:23 PM
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i remember one nice spring day when some yahoos decide to simul rap deidre on the chief
ignoring the fact that standard practice is to walk off, and that all the belay stations were stacked with parties ... they wanted to be cool and got in the way of leaders ... if they had "priority" they would have delayed every party by 30 min+ with the clusterfcuk mess on each station
we just led up anyways ... rappers DO NOT have priority over leaders here ... if im leading you better not rap on me ... cause i might just take a little fall just to see if i can smack ya
or better yet ... thats why we bring up knives 
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csproul
Jul 29, 2011, 6:39 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: i remember one nice spring day when some yahoos decide to simul rap deidre on the chief ignoring the fact that standard practice is to walk off, and that all the belay stations were stacked with parties ... they wanted to be cool and got in the way of leaders ... if they had "priority" they would have delayed every party by 30 min+ with the clusterfcuk mess on each station we just led up anyways ... rappers DO NOT have priority over leaders here ... if im leading you better not rap on me ... cause i might just take a little fall just to see if i can smack ya or better yet ... thats why we bring up knives
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bearbreeder
Jul 29, 2011, 6:48 PM
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then u better us a prussik ... cause i might just fall 
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bearbreeder
Jul 29, 2011, 6:58 PM
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if yr rapping onto a leader ... be PREPARED for the person to fall
especially if youre stupid enough to cross lines
if you arent .. well id suggest not rapping ..
unless yr the type of person who thinks "wait im ok if i cross lines and i wont die, but the leader might if i floss him off"
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essay
Jul 29, 2011, 7:02 PM
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Had this happen two weeks ago at Rifle as well. Badass man stole my wife's anchor then tried to clean his route before my wife finished hers. He did, but he forgot to tram out on his line when he came off the wall and ended up breaking his climbing partners ankle in the swing, Karma?. Time to start climbing harder I guess, I never thought there would be lines on 5.13!
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michael1245
Jul 29, 2011, 7:53 PM
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bottom line...
somebody politely asks you to please, let the lady rap down before you lead up, and you say no for whatever reason, you are a douchebag.
esp if the rap is in progress and you haven't begun your lead yet. let them finish before you start. common courtesy should trump these "unspoken" rules that everyone is supposed to know.
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gmggg
Jul 29, 2011, 8:00 PM
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tH1e-swiN1e wrote: Also, climbers going up always have the right of way. Local or not thats climbing etiquette worldwide.
Um, that would be right if it wasn't wrong. Downward has priority on mountains and on trails.
In the OP's case, however, it all depends on the route in question. Although I think that if she was indeed in mid-rap then there's little excuse for the climber not to be kind and wait - even if the rappers are handling their descent incorrectly.
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wwalt822
Jul 29, 2011, 8:15 PM
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The top pitch of a short multipitch climb is no different from a single pitch climb. Anybody who would start up a single pitch climb against the current parties wishes while they were cleaning the anchor is a dick.
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