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Question about the double rappel.
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Stoves


Aug 1, 2011, 5:40 PM
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Question about the double rappel.
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So one of my partners uses the double rappel quite often. (we have the same weigh (or weight?)

Seems faster to me but I met some peeps who really dislike this system.

What are some of the pros and cons of this system?


healyje


Aug 1, 2011, 5:42 PM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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I'm guessing you mean simu-rapping - two people at once, each on a strand of the rap rope(s).

Yeah, count me among folks who don't care for it.


Stoves


Aug 1, 2011, 5:53 PM
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Re: [healyje] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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That's right thanks for the correction.

Care to elaborate why you dont care for it?
Do you think its unsafe?


acorneau


Aug 1, 2011, 5:59 PM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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Faster - yes, but unless you're having to bail out very quickly (lightening, etc.) then it an unnecessary risk.


potreroed


Aug 1, 2011, 7:55 PM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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In the Potrero Chico, where you have to rap every pitch you've climbed, simul'rapping can save lots of time.

I don't believe it's any more dangerous than any other rappel. You have to check, double-check and stay in communication with your partner--just like anything else you do in climbing.


ladyscarlett


Aug 2, 2011, 3:46 PM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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It's fun. Speed aside, it really can be more fun.

You can give your partner shit for going faster for being that much heavier, or make smart comment about how they dangle and hang...

Sometimes, side by side is a fun as top and bottom.

Have fun

LS


chadnsc


Aug 2, 2011, 4:21 PM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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I've done the simul rappel method a dozen times in Needles SD and unless the situation requires it I'm not a big fan of the method.

I'm sure it could be a faster rap method but I'd rather just leave a few feet of webbing and rap off that if possible.


climbingtrash


Aug 2, 2011, 9:26 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
I've done the simul rappel method a dozen times in Needles SD and unless the situation requires it I'm not a big fan of the method.

I'm sure it could be a faster rap method but I'd rather just leave a few feet of webbing and rap off that if possible.

^^ Huh?!? ^^

I've simul-rapped of several big routes. If both climbers are comfortable with it and paying attention, and the anchor is bomber, it's no big deal. It's sure as hell a lot faster.


rsmillbern


Aug 2, 2011, 11:17 PM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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For me it depends on who I am with and the rap. For free hanging routes I don't like it as much (esp with thin ropes), but for a low angle slab route I really like this method.


healyje


Aug 3, 2011, 12:53 AM
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Re: [ladyscarlett] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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ladyscarlett wrote:
It's fun. Speed aside, it really can be more fun.

Hate to be a curmudgeon, but nothing about rappelling should ever - ever - be considered 'fun', particularly in a multipitch setting.

I will say, however, that Potrero Chico is probably the one place it may make some sense, given what the place is and the fact it has reasonable anchors from what I hear.


StuMsg


Aug 3, 2011, 1:21 AM
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Re: [healyje] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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healyje wrote:
ladyscarlett wrote:
It's fun. Speed aside, it really can be more fun.

Hate to be a curmudgeon, but nothing about rappelling should ever - ever - be considered 'fun', particularly in a multipitch setting.

I will say, however, that Potrero Chico is probably the one place it may make some sense, given what the place is and the fact it has reasonable anchors from what I hear.

Why not? Everybody has their own opinion of what is fun and what is not, if they can do it responsibly why shouldn't they have fun doing it?

I find it fun (just like almost every other aspect of climbing) not in the this is dangerous and I could die way, more the I climbed this, look at that view, no need to rush, warm down kind of way.

Stu


patto


Aug 3, 2011, 2:20 AM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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I think most can agree that simul rapping has an increased chance of things going wrong.

I think most can agree that simul-rapping is safe IF your and your partner are diligent, careful and safe.

It comes down to how you prioritise safety vs speed.

Given than MANY accidents happen while rappelling. I'm happy avoiding simul rapping.


ladyscarlett


Aug 3, 2011, 2:41 AM
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Re: [StuMsg] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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StuMsg wrote:

I find it fun (just like almost every other aspect of climbing) not in the this is dangerous and I could die way, more the I climbed this, look at that view, no need to rush, warm down kind of way.

Stu

yup. Though the way you describe it, makes me relate the experience to the naked fun time that can happen after sex. So not as fun by yourself.

Oh wait, that's probably just me.

Rappelling is definitely to be done carefully, every time. But like hell I'm not going to smile while I'm dangling out among the beautiful views and good company...

Safety third?

Cheers

LS


flatlanderAB


Aug 6, 2011, 7:05 AM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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I am of the opinion that simu-rappelling can be done safely, the use of a prussic back up is a must and as long as both climbers are near the same weight there is little chance of the rope sliding. It is a far more efficient way to rappel a multi pitch route. I also think it is important for both climbers to have the ability to escape the system safely in the event that one climber is knocked unconscious.


bearbreeder


Aug 6, 2011, 8:19 AM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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Count me out

I dont think it saves that much time ... Assuming you each set up a prussik and rap more or less at the same rate ...

I prefer to stack the raps, have the first person with a prussik and give a firemans when down ... The second can then zip down

If one person effs up on a simul rap ... Yr both dead ... I believe there was an incident not to long ago with a simul


johnwesely


Aug 6, 2011, 8:29 AM
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Re: [StuMsg] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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StuMsg wrote:
healyje wrote:
ladyscarlett wrote:
It's fun. Speed aside, it really can be more fun.

Hate to be a curmudgeon, but nothing about rappelling should ever - ever - be considered 'fun', particularly in a multipitch setting.

I will say, however, that Potrero Chico is probably the one place it may make some sense, given what the place is and the fact it has reasonable anchors from what I hear.

Why not? Everybody has their own opinion of what is fun and what is not, if they can do it responsibly why shouldn't they have fun doing it?

I find it fun (just like almost every other aspect of climbing) not in the this is dangerous and I could die way, more the I climbed this, look at that view, no need to rush, warm down kind of way.

Stu

It is dangerous and you could die.


StuMsg


Aug 7, 2011, 7:37 AM
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And so is rock climbing, driving, sailing, diving, crossing the road, ...


johnwesely


Aug 7, 2011, 8:28 AM
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StuMsg wrote:
And so is rock climbing, driving, sailing, diving, crossing the road, ...

That does not mean that they are all equally safe.


climbingtrash


Aug 7, 2011, 8:31 AM
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StuMsg wrote:
And so is rock climbing, driving, sailing, diving, crossing the road, ...

Yeah, but the point is (for any n00bs reading this) that simul-rappelling is more dangerous and not the norm. Climbing/rappelling should be more about risk management and not about risk taking. If you're comfortable with it, fine. Just be honest with yourself and the reality of the situation.


marc801


Aug 7, 2011, 9:51 AM
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Re: [flatlanderAB] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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flatlanderAB wrote:
...in the event that one climber is knocked unconscious.
How many times has it happened to you? Your partners? Anyone you know?
How many times have you heard of this actually happening, anyshere?


flatlanderAB


Aug 7, 2011, 10:22 AM
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marc801 wrote:
flatlanderAB wrote:
...in the event that one climber is knocked unconscious.
How many times has it happened to you? Your partners? Anyone you know?
How many times have you heard of this actually happening, anyshere?

I have never had a partner get knocked unconscious from rock fall, however three weeks ago I watched a friend of mine pull a block of limestone the size of a toaster loose on lead and nearly take out his belayer. By "almost" taken out I mean it missed him by two inches and had the belayer not thrown himself backwards he would have ended up with the rock full in the face. I have also been hit by rock while on rappel on more than one occasion, The amount of loose rock, mountain goats and wind in the area I climb in makes for perfect conditions to be showered with rock almost every time my partners and I go out. If a person is not wearing a helmet in the area I climb at it is a matter of time before they are hit in the head and knocked out or killed. In other words no no no and yes and that is why i believe in helmets, double checking myself and my partner redundancy in all climbing safety systems and a good understanding of self rescue.


Stoves


Aug 9, 2011, 2:17 AM
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Re: [patto] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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I agree with "It comes down to how you prioritize safety vs speed. "

My partner decided that it was best to simu rap during the day then to rap off during the night.

No one here mentioned attaching yourself to your partner as an extra safety measure. Is this standard practice?


ladyscarlett


Aug 9, 2011, 5:18 AM
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The reliable safety precaution I take whether climbing, rappelling, hiking etc is to carry all the smokes/alcohol. I've noticed the team does well with vested interest that I get to the ground safe...

good luck!

Cheers

LS


climbingtrash


Aug 9, 2011, 3:54 PM
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ladyscarlett wrote:
The reliable safety precaution I take whether climbing, rappelling, hiking etc is to carry all the smokes/alcohol. I've noticed the team does well with vested interest that I get to the ground safe...

good luck!

Cheers

LS

Gud strategy.


Guran


Aug 10, 2011, 4:40 AM
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Re: [Stoves] Question about the double rappel. [In reply to]
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Stoves wrote:
No one here mentioned attaching yourself to your partner as an extra safety measure. Is this standard practice?

I've only ever simul-rapped for the sake of practice.
When we did, we stayed attached via a double length sling. Seemed like a good precaution...

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