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vencido
Aug 9, 2011, 5:38 PM
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Your questions are a lot more complicated that they appear.
Whether you are climbing up 15 feet or climbing up 400 feet, many of the same things can go wrong.
Ascending and descending ropes is not a trivial thing. If you are the type that can learn from a book, great. If not, you will need hands on training. There are so many tips to make things easier and things that are dangerous that you would not realize if learning by trial and error.
For a comprehensive look at technique and equipment check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/...312911073&sr=1-6
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 5:47 PM
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By the way, what are you using as an anchor?
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 6:31 PM
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That would be greatly appreciated. From what you've said so far, I trust any advice you would give.
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 6:55 PM
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lol not sure what their anchor is... but mine would probably be something similar but I have a lot less distance to travel :)
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 7:03 PM
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jgruberman wrote: lol not sure what their anchor is... but mine would probably be something similar but I have a lot less distance to travel :)
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 7:06 PM
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I haven't gotten that far yet. There are a lot of extremely large trees where I'm going down.
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 7:34 PM
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jgruberman wrote: I haven't gotten that far yet. There are a lot of extremely large trees where I'm going down.
I gotta apologise, my internet is freaking out when I try to upload the video file. I'll look again to see if there is a good video on youtube. It's too bad - I had a great joke about how huge my package looked in my P.J.'s harness combo...
Edit: You know how to tie to a big tree? If you know how to tie in (Fig 8), it may well be easiest just to tie to the tree like that.
You should really, REALLY try to get someone to show you all this shit in person.
(This post was edited by sungam on Aug 9, 2011, 7:38 PM)
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 7:42 PM
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LOL... well if it can go to any website or upload via FTP or something I can get you ability to do that.
I'm interested in seeing the vid you make, considering its exactly related to what I've been asking and talking about.
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 8:03 PM
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I am on a very cheap low-bandwidth internet connection, so just getting it on the net is the issue.
Anyways, I will try to write it out in short sentences.
Firstly, try to get someone to show you it in person.
Make sure you don't go alone. If something happens (dropped ascender, rope gets jammed in a crack and you can't ascend past it etc.) then your cell coverage might be kinda shitty, what with you being under ground and all. Have someone there that can get you help.
So firstly, you can rappel down with the gri gri. Make sure there is a knot in the end of your rope in case you mis-judged the length of the rappel. That way if you run out of rope you won't just rap off the end of the rope. :)
When you get to the cache, cache it (or whatever), but if you need to take both hands off the rope then clove hitch the rope to your harness just a couple of feet below the grigri. In fact, tie it anyways.
Put your ascender (ideally a handled one) on the rope above the grigri. Clip a 'biner through the top hole if you like, this will stop the ascender disconnecting from the rope should you accidentally disengage the toothed lever and lock it back. When you see an ascender you will know what I mean.
Attach a sling between your harness and the ascender, this will save you from dropping it. Ideally the sling should be just long enough so that when you push the ascender up it comes tight with a slight bend in your elbow.
Have a sling going from the bottom of the ascender to your foot (you choose which one). Clove hitch it to the foot if it keeps trying to come off.
At this point you should be able to clearly see that if you push the ascender up the rope and stand up, you could pull the slack through the gri gri and could then just sit back on your harness, ready to push the ascender up once again.
To make things a little easier, you can experiment with taking the rope from the brake end of the grigri and clipping it through the carabiner at the bottom of the ascender.
That was when you stand up instead of just pulling yourself up with one arm, you can pull on the rope below* the 'biner on the ascender with the other arm, too.
Pic coming soon...
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 8:06 PM
Post #36 of 70
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Perfect... I understand all of that.
When you say "Attach a sling between your harness and the ascender" do you just mean a small length of rope or equivalent?
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 8:39 PM
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jgruberman wrote: Perfect... I understand all of that. When you say "Attach a sling between your harness and the ascender" do you just mean a small length of rope or equivalent?
If you were going to be doing a lot of jugging then I would reccomend using a daisy chain or similar to get the length just right, but really for the lengths you are looking at it really doesn't matter, you aren't going to get hopelessly pumped in that distance if you take a steady pace.
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 8:44 PM
Post #38 of 70
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Okay, I get all of that.
Just didn't know what a "sling" was. Google images wins.
http://sicksport.com/images/1in_nylon_sling.jpg
:)
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 8:52 PM
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jgruberman wrote: Okay, I get all of that. Just didn't know what a "sling" was. Google images wins. http://sicksport.com/images/1in_nylon_sling.jpg :)
FWIW, I prefer using a left-handed ascender with the set-up I described.
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 8:58 PM
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Aha! I just had an "oh shit" moment.
I'm not doing any seperate ascending with my foot... I'm just using that foot pushing to move my entire body up the rope while the only device performing the upwards work is the ascender and the only device performing the downwards work is the gri-gri
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 9:04 PM
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and instead of using a gri-gri if I'm on a budget and have additional safety, I can use a regular belay device. i think I got it!
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 9:09 PM
Post #42 of 70
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jgruberman wrote: and instead of using a gri-gri if I'm on a budget and have additional safety, I can use a regular belay device. i think I got it!
If you are going for the budget option, and won't have a gri-gri, then it is all a little more complicated, and a fairly different system.
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 9:10 PM
Post #43 of 70
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jgruberman wrote: Aha! I just had an "oh shit" moment. I'm not doing any seperate ascending with my foot... I'm just using that foot pushing to move my entire body up the rope while the only device performing the upwards work is the ascender and the only device performing the downwards work is the gri-gri 
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 9:13 PM
Post #44 of 70
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sungam wrote: jgruberman wrote: and instead of using a gri-gri if I'm on a budget and have additional safety, I can use a regular belay device. i think I got it! Whoahnonononono, not for the ascending! The only reason that the gri gri works is because it is an auto-locking belay device, a normal belay plate would just slide. If you are going for the budget option, and won't have a gri-gri, then it is all a little more complicated, and a fairly different system.
Oh I meant for the descending to use a regular belay device. I know the ascending will be an ascender and the two slings... I got that part(I hope lol)
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 9:23 PM
Post #45 of 70
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jgruberman wrote: sungam wrote: jgruberman wrote: and instead of using a gri-gri if I'm on a budget and have additional safety, I can use a regular belay device. i think I got it! Whoahnonononono, not for the ascending! The only reason that the gri gri works is because it is an auto-locking belay device, a normal belay plate would just slide. If you are going for the budget option, and won't have a gri-gri, then it is all a little more complicated, and a fairly different system. Oh I meant for the descending to use a regular belay device. I know the ascending will be an ascender and the two slings... I got that part(I hope lol)
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 9:27 PM
Post #46 of 70
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sungam wrote: jgruberman wrote: sungam wrote: jgruberman wrote: and instead of using a gri-gri if I'm on a budget and have additional safety, I can use a regular belay device. i think I got it! Whoahnonononono, not for the ascending! The only reason that the gri gri works is because it is an auto-locking belay device, a normal belay plate would just slide. If you are going for the budget option, and won't have a gri-gri, then it is all a little more complicated, and a fairly different system. Oh I meant for the descending to use a regular belay device. I know the ascending will be an ascender and the two slings... I got that part(I hope lol) Unfortunately you can't ascend with just one ascender, unless the rock is at a really friendly angle.
Well it's at a complete 90 degree angle. Straight up/down. And if I can't ascend with one ascender... what have we been talking about? I thought I needed an ascender, gri-gri, and two slings?
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 9:29 PM
Post #47 of 70
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jgruberman wrote: sungam wrote: jgruberman wrote: sungam wrote: jgruberman wrote: and instead of using a gri-gri if I'm on a budget and have additional safety, I can use a regular belay device. i think I got it! Whoahnonononono, not for the ascending! The only reason that the gri gri works is because it is an auto-locking belay device, a normal belay plate would just slide. If you are going for the budget option, and won't have a gri-gri, then it is all a little more complicated, and a fairly different system. Oh I meant for the descending to use a regular belay device. I know the ascending will be an ascender and the two slings... I got that part(I hope lol) Unfortunately you can't ascend with just one ascender, unless the rock is at a really friendly angle. Well it's at a complete 90 degree angle. Straight up/down. And if I can't ascend with one ascender... what have we been talking about? I thought I needed an ascender, gri-gri, and two slings?
With the grigri+ascender you use the grigri to hold your weight as you slide the ascender up the rope. With a normal belay device this will not work, as the normal belay device does not lock onto the rope and hold your weight.
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 9:31 PM
Post #48 of 70
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Got it - that's what I thought you meant. Thanks. Final question, is there a specific type of rope I need to use for this? Aside from being able to reach to bottom, I'm asking more in terms of type/thickness.
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sungam
Aug 9, 2011, 9:33 PM
Post #49 of 70
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jgruberman wrote: Got it - that's what I thought you meant. Thanks. Final question, is there a specific type of rope I need to use for this? Aside from being able to reach to bottom, I'm asking more in terms of type/thickness.
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jgruberman
Aug 9, 2011, 9:37 PM
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Perfect. I went to the local dealers website and looked for the closest to that and came up with:
http://www.rei.com/product/737380/pmi-e-z-bend-sport-static-rope-11mm-x-46m
Says:
This low-stretch PMI static rope with knot-friendly EZ-Bend sheath braiding is a favorite of cavers and search-and-rescue teams.
Sounds like I'm onto something :)
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