|
|
|
|
Rmsyll2
Aug 10, 2011, 3:27 AM
Post #1 of 16
(7875 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266
|
At the sport route section where I climb there are presently two cases of "bail 'biners", a carabiner put in a face hanger where someone could not complete and needed something to put the rope through to get down. One is a rather small quick-link, the other is a sizable locker. I've wondered how they are used, but that is probably too long a lesson to be spelled out here. The other question is about how that affects the route.
The quick-link seems to spoil that placement: a climber will not be able to easily clip into either the hanger or the little 'biner. Getting to the next bolt is the crux for a 5.11 route. So how does it ever get taken down?
The large carabiner is at the crux for a 5.13 route. I'm guessing that people will now use the carabiner instead of the hanger, so that it does not spoil the route and may make that placement easier to use. It can be taken down on rappel by the leader -- unless a 'biner wiggles too much on a hanger to slap the 'draw into?
This is on my mind for a related matter. There are two bolted hangers together up on a wall that is a sport route. I think the best way to make them like belay anchors to make a half-route option, is to add a ring in a quick-link to be what will then be clipped or used for anchors. Would sport climbers going through to the roof mind that?
.
|
|
|
|
|
JoeHamilton
Aug 10, 2011, 3:45 AM
Post #2 of 16
(7859 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2011
Posts: 815
|
someone who enjoys those routes and has done them, or someone who is doing them and comes across those bail biners will most likely remove them. I would def check with some other locals, and maybe the local guide before making a route have two parts. If the two bolts are that close it might be there for that reason already, but not set up with rappel rings so not to distract or create the illusion of a Finnish. I am sure others will respond, with more info, and opinion on this.
|
|
|
|
|
Kartessa
Aug 10, 2011, 3:58 AM
Post #3 of 16
(7846 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2008
Posts: 7362
|
Normally, if you finish the route, you take everything on it. If someone has left a nice big locker and I send it, I now have a nice big locker.
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
Aug 10, 2011, 4:01 AM
Post #4 of 16
(7843 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
Rmsyll2 wrote: At the sport route section where I climb there are presently two cases of "bail 'biners", a carabiner put in a face hanger where someone could not complete and needed something to put the rope through to get down. One is a rather small quick-link, the other is a sizable locker. I've wondered how they are used, but that is probably too long a lesson to be spelled out here. The other question is about how that affects the route. The quick-link seems to spoil that placement: a climber will not be able to easily clip into either the hanger or the little 'biner. Getting to the next bolt is the crux for a 5.11 route. So how does it ever get taken down? The large carabiner is at the crux for a 5.13 route. I'm guessing that people will now use the carabiner instead of the hanger, so that it does not spoil the route and may make that placement easier to use. It can be taken down on rappel by the leader -- unless a 'biner wiggles too much on a hanger to slap the 'draw into? This is on my mind for a related matter. There are two bolted hangers together up on a wall that is a sport route. I think the best way to make them like belay anchors to make a half-route option, is to add a ring in a quick-link to be what will then be clipped or used for anchors. Would sport climbers going through to the roof mind that? .
Take the biner off the .11, take the quicklink off the other one.. either on the way up or on the way down if it's not in an easy spot. Leave the locker. It could be a cleaning biner. Some overhanging routes are very hard to clean so a biner can be left on one of the bolts to allow you to clean the route easier.
Ask the FA about adding stuff to the other route. quicklink with a rap ring on it would be fine to clip for me but the FA might not want that to be done.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Aug 10, 2011, 10:45 AM
Post #5 of 16
(7806 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Let's just see if I can win some cookies here...
Black and Blue Velvet has the locker on it, and Blind prophet has the quick link (I am thinking just before the moves to then over the small roof).
Edit to add: Am I right?
Leave the locker. That goes to the next person who sends. Clean the quick link if you can, but it's not that big a deal - if it's as small a quick link as you say (IE too small to clip to) there will be space in the hanger for a draw. Someone doing the route can have it.
(This post was edited by sungam on Aug 10, 2011, 10:47 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
Rmsyll2
Aug 10, 2011, 6:23 PM
Post #6 of 16
(7721 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266
|
The crux of a 5.13 is indeed a "big deal". And very few will ever "send" it, especially at the crux. That, and it being summer in the sun, is why the very nice locker is still there.
The quick-link was passed this last weekend, and the climber complained about it being there. Quick-links typically jam if tightened; so that besides having to do a 5.11 easily past that point, one would have to have brought and carried a wrench to use when cleaning. Until that is done, every other climber attempting the route will have that added difficulty of clipping there.
The details of these cases are not my point. I don't do lead, so talk about how to escape a route and a few observations are all I know about the applications and ethics. Therefore, my post.
.
|
|
|
|
|
6pacfershur
Aug 11, 2011, 1:23 AM
Post #7 of 16
(7659 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 23, 2010
Posts: 254
|
Kartessa wrote: Normally, if you finish the route, you take everything on it. If someone has left a nice big locker and I send it, I now have a nice big locker.
what, exactly, do you do with a confiscated bail-biner? trade it for bacon? personally, i would NEVER use some abandoned caribiner for much more than hanging my hammock on the beach....joehamilton may have dropped it
|
|
|
|
|
JoeHamilton
Aug 11, 2011, 1:25 AM
Post #8 of 16
(7653 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2011
Posts: 815
|
I don't drop gear.  But I will say that was a funny one
|
|
|
|
|
Kartessa
Aug 11, 2011, 1:25 AM
Post #9 of 16
(7653 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2008
Posts: 7362
|
6pacfershur wrote: Kartessa wrote: Normally, if you finish the route, you take everything on it. If someone has left a nice big locker and I send it, I now have a nice big locker. what, exactly, do you do with a confiscated bail-biner? trade it for bacon? personally, i would NEVER use some abandoned caribiner for much more than hanging my hammock on the beach....joehamilton may have dropped it
I save it for bailing on the next route so I don't have to leave anything that cost me money.
|
|
|
|
|
Kartessa
Aug 11, 2011, 1:26 AM
Post #10 of 16
(7651 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2008
Posts: 7362
|
Kartessa wrote: 6pacfershur wrote: Kartessa wrote: Normally, if you finish the route, you take everything on it. If someone has left a nice big locker and I send it, I now have a nice big locker. what, exactly, do you do with a confiscated bail-biner? trade it for bacon? personally, i would NEVER use some abandoned caribiner for much more than hanging my hammock on the beach....joehamilton may have dropped it I save it for bailing on the next route so I don't have to leave anything that cost me money.
= more money for more bacon.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Aug 11, 2011, 1:28 AM
Post #11 of 16
(7647 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
Rmsyll2 wrote: The details of these cases are not my point. I don't do lead, so talk about how to escape a route and a few observations are all I know about the applications and ethics. Therefore, my post. .
Don't worry about it. The people who this affects are probably adults and handle the situation themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
Kartessa
Aug 11, 2011, 1:28 AM
Post #12 of 16
(7646 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2008
Posts: 7362
|
Rmsyll2 wrote: Quick-links typically jam if tightened; so that besides having to do a 5.11 easily past that point, one would have to have brought and carried a wrench to use when cleaning.
If you tighten a quick-link properly, it'll be less likely to jam. Get it as tight as you can with your hands so that when you weight it, it doesn't stress the threads as much.
|
|
|
|
|
jakedatc
Aug 11, 2011, 1:57 AM
Post #13 of 16
(7631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054
|
6pacfershur wrote: Kartessa wrote: Normally, if you finish the route, you take everything on it. If someone has left a nice big locker and I send it, I now have a nice big locker. what, exactly, do you do with a confiscated bail-biner? trade it for bacon? personally, i would NEVER use some abandoned caribiner for much more than hanging my hammock on the beach....joehamilton may have dropped it
hmm best booty locker i got off a route is on my belay device. not sure how a booty biner is any different than any other used biner on your rack. which most of them are. until someone fails and they leave it behind. as long as the gate works, not rusty it should be fine.
you saying you wouldn't use a #2 camelot you find on a route either? cuz.. please send my way for uhh hammock hanging..
|
|
|
|
|
JoeHamilton
Aug 11, 2011, 2:09 AM
Post #14 of 16
(7626 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2011
Posts: 815
|
shit Jake, I just dropped one of them last week and retired it
|
|
|
|
|
clc
Aug 11, 2011, 2:13 AM
Post #15 of 16
(7623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 495
|
johnwesely wrote: Don't worry about it. The people who this affects are probably adults and handle the situation themselves.
This is the best answer. I bet the the guy climbing the 5.13 will know what to do.
|
|
|
|
|
JoeHamilton
Aug 11, 2011, 2:16 AM
Post #16 of 16
(7608 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2011
Posts: 815
|
clc wrote: johnwesely wrote: Don't worry about it. The people who this affects are probably adults and handle the situation themselves. This is the best answer. I bet the the guy climbing the 5.13 will know what to do.
+1 to John for saying what many us thought but didn't write
|
|
|
|
|
|
